I don’t recall if this was from your forum, or from here, but you were talking about doing a side-by-side comparison of several turnout scratchbuilding / kitbuilding, etc. techniques.
Your empirical analysis of turnouts (i.e. - storebought will not be flawless) was interesting. I’ve handlaid a couple, and am struggling with the various frog-making techniques. I’ve gathered up quite a few MR articles on stratchbuilding turnouts.
I’m pretty sold on PC ties vs. spikes, as well as building at the bench and not at the layout.
I’ve also got a pretty decent point making technique that I’m happy with.
The only part I am still quite unsatisfied with is frog construction. Some people do 1/2 the angle for each rail, and some people have one rail in front, with the other coming into the side of the first (locally, I’ve seen an old fashioned real life switch that was made with rail this way - that is, actual rail, and not a frog casting).
In May 1978 MR, Ed Stimpson explained a technique where he first slightly bent the rails before filing the frog points - 1/2 of the angle for each rail. This provided support under the point of the frog. My main source of unsatisfaction with doing 1/2 of the angle for each rail is you end up with a long section of unsupported rail head. Mechanically, it just doesn’t seem ideal.
So, I’m thinking about checking into frog castings, so the frogs would be taken care of, then making the points, etc. by filing rail.
So, Joe, are your tests in progress yet? (dying to hear your results!)
Joe, I also have a turnout related question. Did the prototype use a separate hinged piece for the points, or was the closure rail tapered and just left unfastened at the base for a certain distance, spaced and sprung from side to side with the throw bar? I am using CV kits and wondered if I should use a longer piece of rail instead of the two piece as designed? jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
I’ve got all the stuff, now I need to sit down and try it out, documenting the process along the way. It will probably be a few months yet, since I need to be a good boy and work on my how-to video volume 5, which is due out this fall.
My goal is to figure out how to best build an NMRA compliant turnout that not only works great but looks great too. The Fast Tracks jigs are cool, but you end up with a turnout that has no tie plate detail. If you use MicroEngineering track like I do for its fine tie plate and spike detail, then the resulting turnout will look “naked” with no tie plate or spikehead detail. Turnouts are a model too, and a turnout without spike and tie plate detail would be like a car or loco without its rivets. It just doesn’t look right.
(Click to enlarge)
Here’s what nicely ballasted and weathered MicroEngineering track looks like …
So my latest thinking is to use the Central Valley plastic turnout tie kits, and to replace a few of the ties with PC board ties, and to grind down the foil on the ties such that the remaining foil looks like tie plates, and then use the frog and points filing jigs from Fast Tracks.
You can’t use the Fast Tracks full turnout jigs with the Central Valley (CV) tie kits because the PC ties on the Fast Tracks jigs are all wrong, which is a major bummer. I wish the Fast Tracks people would consider some versions of their jigs that go with the CV tie kits. IMO, they have missed a complete segment of their possible market by not thinking about modelers who want tie plate and spike detail.
John: As to hinged points or continuous points, I prefer continuous points on model turnouts, but I believe the prototype prefers hinged points.
Have you contacted Tim or Ron Warris about making jigs that work for the CV kits? They are nice to deal with and open to new things. I asked if they would make a #5 Double crossover turnout jig which they agreed to make. Course the furnace died which killed the modeling budget for a bit but I will ask again soon.
I tried combining Fast Tracks #5 points with the central valley tie strip with limited at best success. First problem is you have to make the Points hinged which is a turnoff for me. There wasnt enough spring in the rails for them to move back and forth on solid points. Hinges to others probably doesn’t matter much. I just like how smooth they operate. Second is securing the points to a throw bar. I used a PCB tie for it but it kind of sticks out.
Has anybody considered the combo of Fast Tracks with Proto87 tie detail and switch details? Might be worth looking into.
Yep, tried contacting them, but they told me they weren’t doing any more new jigs. So much for that. So now I’m investigating plan B, and once I test out my ideas, I’m planning to document and publish them. Sort of the best of the really great turnout kit pieces parts and jigs, to get a killer turnout, easily and quickly, that operates as good as it looks.
Yes, quite true. By using the CV turnout tie kit and only the frog and point filing jigs from Fast Tracks, you don’t have a hundred dollars of turnout jig to amortize out across a bunch of turnouts.
Plus, by using PC ties instead of CV’s recommended Barge Cement, you won’t ever have to worry about rails moving around or popping up later. Soldering the rails down will get you a turnout that’s about as dimensionally stable as they come.
More to come on this topic, one of these days, I hope …
Both the Fast Tracks site and the CV web site have full-sized free downloadable turnout tie diagrams. So one of the first things I did was download the two tie diagrams for their code 83 #6 turnouts and then superimpose them over each other. Here’s the result:
(Click for a full-sized image)
As you can see if you study the full-sized image, the Fast Tracks PC ties, especially in the closure rails area, do not line up at all, even sort of. Since the CV ties with all the nice detail are connected to each other with a web, plus the fact that the tie plate depressions for the base of the rail are at a specific guage to fit the precise location of the closure rail needed, you can’t just start adjusting tie locations on the CV tie kit.
From this it became clear pretty quickly that I needed to just replace a few of the CV plastic ties in strategic locations with PC ties and then use the CV ties as a sort of “poor man’s” turnout jig ala Fast Tracks. The CV ties will serve as a jig to position the rails, and if I work reasonably fast with the soldering iron on the PC ties, the plastic ties should be fine.
I can use the Fast Tracks frog jig and their points filing jig, since it’s clear from the superimposed tie diagrams that the rail positions are identical, even though the ties are all wrong.
Next is to actually do this and document the steps.
