HELP! [:O] My Geography has just fallen apart! [:I]
I thought that I was finally getting my geography of the US down and Chicago has gone and moved itself round from the South side of Lake Michigan (At least I did know that the Windy City was on the Lake [sigh]) round to the W[%-)]est shore.
Then to really confuse me this pic shows a Louiseville and Nashville Hopper waiting to go onto a car float (or just having come off one).
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-r/rtw363ads.jpg
L&N in Chicago??? Date is 1970s… So it’s before CSX… CSX was Chessie and Seaboard/Family Lines which included L&N and ACL wasn’t it? [%-)] My head’s spinning with the compass… [#oops]
Where would L&N be hauling coal from please? And, if it was coal for the East shore of the lake (as suggested by Paul’s post in my Rail to Water Transfer thread) wouldn’t it be easier to send it direct from CSX territory rather than via the Lake?
If it was a Boxcar, almost anything but a coal hopper, I would just assume that it was in interchange traffic… but coal hoppers tend to stay dedicated to heavy traffic don’t they?
Loads of questions… TIA for all your help [bow]
Rail To Water Transfer might mean that the Coal in the hoppers will be loaded onto a ship using a conveyor.
L & N in Chicago? Absolutely. The L & N bought the eastern line of the Chicago and Eastern Illinois in the late 1960’s, which ran between Evansville, Indiana and the Windy City (MoPac got the rest of the C & E I). Even prior to the purchase, some of the Chicago to Florida “name” passenger trains were brought into Dearborn Station by pooled L & N power, while C & E I units ventured south to Atlanta. Could be the same thing with freights. Then, in 1971, the L & N absorbed the MONON RR, which gave it a second entry into Chicago. The Seabord System merger occured in early 1983 (I believe), then CSX in 1985 or 1986.
Seaboard System merger included the L & N, Seaboard Coast Line (Atlantic Coast Line & Seaboard Air Line successor), Clinchfield RY, Georgia RR, and West Point Route (Atlanta & West Point and Western RY of Alabama)
Chessie System was the Chessapeake and Ohio, Baltimore & Ohio, and Western Maryland. There may have been some others. When Chessie System and Seaboard System were combined, the result was CSX.
Or none of the above. Rail to Water Transfer is a facility that unloads rail cars and reloads the product into barges. It is NOT a car float. The cars stay on land.
Sure, via the ex-C&EI (the line that you asked the red flag question about).
If it orginated on the L&N, Kentucky, Tennessee, Illinois. If it originated off the L&N, anyplace between Illinois and Virginia.
Not if you have a contract with RTWT. The coal could be going to any power plant, cement works, steel mill, etc on the Great Lakes, anywhere between Milwaukee, WI and Buffalo, NY. They do the same type of rail/water coal distribution on the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers even to today.
Not necessarily. A day or two a go while driving home I passed two trains with one Reading, Blue Mountain and Northern hopper in each train going through Omaha, NE. Tha
Dave: Found the car in my L&N color guide book
Series 198200-198799 100 Ton HT built in Bethlehem’s Johnston PA plant 1976-1977. They would be the last built in the standard L&N black hopper scheme. Many Orange hoppers similar to the Atlas model were used in pool service from KY coal mines to USS facilities. Most of L&N mines were located in eastern KY. Many L&N cars ran in pool service between points.
THe Rail to Water Transfer may have been needed to get to USS south works. I have pictures of the L&N orange hoppers on the EJ&E. They would be needed to get metal coal from Dolton to USS Gary works.
As for ownership, the L&N aquired parts of the NC&STL in the 1880’s. The “Family Lines” could have been assembled in early 1900’s. You could view the merger as a cleaning up of complicated financial agreements. AFAIK the State of Georgia STILL owns the Atlantic & Western, (the General’s Civil War line), but leases it to NC7STL-L&N-CSX.
It’s probably hard to think of the L&N as a north/south RR in a East-West world. The way they operate in Nashville, it’s more like a big X. To the NW, legs stretch through Evansville to Chicago & St Louis. Another line connects Nashville to Memphis. THe “north line” connects Louisville & Cincinnatti. The busy SE line heads to Atlanta. Finally, the south line heads to Alabama & the Gulf at Mobile & New Orleans.
Actually, L&N coal moved to Chicago well before they bought the C&EI. I’ve found hard data (photos and routing sheets) showing L&N hoppers moving north to Indianapolis on the NYC, west from Indy on the P&E, north from Bloomington (IL) on the IC, and finally east to Chicago on the IC.
Remember, coal was an odd commodity. We’re used to someone buying something and THEN it being shipped, but that’s not always the case. Lots of bulk shipments (coal, grain, even lumber) was loaded onto cars BEFORE it had a buyer. Cars would be shipped “thataway” and it was up to a broker to find a buyer in that general direction. I’ve even seen data on a multiple car shipment of lumber that made several circuits around the Midwest until it finally found a home!
I saw L&N two bay hoppers in Galesburg Yard in the 1980s and that is not that far from Chicago
Into the 1980s there was still a market, shrinking to be sure, for home heating coal and there were coal dealers in cities such as Milwaukee that got coal a few hoppers at a time. L&N would have been a very logical hopper to see in that service. Similarly there were still small power plants, often supplying electricity and perhaps steam heat to a mid size hospital or university that received loads of coal by rail, and again, L&N would have been a logical road to see on those hoppers.
Dave Nelson
Thanks all! [:D]
My thinking’s all wrong-way-round again [banghead] I keep forgetting that you built the States East-West not North-South.
I guess that before “low sulphur” there wasn’t such a focus on the big Powder River Basin coal drags West to East. (Are there others now)?
I am aware that many coals were specific to use. In the UK different Railways designed their steam locos with different fireboxes accordng to the coal they had on hand – same as you had the “Mother Hubbard” fireboxes… can’t recall where. There were, as you remind me, coals that were better for steel production, domestic use, steam/elelctricity and more…
[I have some Bowser SLSF/Frisco hoppers that I was going to re-number to CNW - because I couldn’t find any CNW hoppers - – Now I’m wondering where these would have run? Come to that; I’ll have to look up the SLSF and see where that was [%-)]
Isn’t this hobby fun? Always something new to discover [:-^]
Thanks again… any more information - and pics -would be welcme [8D]