The worlds last 100 percent steam operated line, in China,has finally gotten diesels.According to “THE RAILWAY MAGAZINE” ,A British publication, about 40 percent of the trains are now diesel hauled.Some trains operate with two diesels, some with one diesel and one steam engine.More diesels are on the way.The time to get your pictures is now.
There are industrial and logging railroads in China that will be operating steam for many years.
on the bright side this is good news for EMD and GE.
On the not-so-bright side, China’s switch to diesel locomotives is taking quite the toll on the worlds diesel prices… there is only so much to go around.
I am not familiar with China’s trade practices. Is it certain that China will purchase EMD and G.E. locomotives? The documentary I saw on P.B.S. on the railroads of Russia and China left me with the impression that most of the Diesel locomotives were Russian built. Aside from operating on different gauges, the coaches and locos appeared to be identical.
Don’t worry …at the rate things are going, it’s GE and EMD that are going to lose the market share to Chinese diesels…
" …Pardon me Roy, is that the Daewoo choo choo…"
This is a little of topic but what are some of the operating practices of the Chinese railroads?I remember an artical in TRAINS some years ago about the steam engines.I figure that most of the container trains in America have containers loaded in China so do they operate double stack trains there?
Er, Dan,
Daewoo is a Korean company whose locomotives are largely licence-built copies of EMD units!
The largest Chinese builder is Dalien, whose most prolific product is the DF4B. This uses the 16-240ZA engine (240mm bore cylinders) an engine generally similar to the Alco 251 but larger. It is rated at 3000 HP and the DF4 has a double ended boxcab body similar to earlier imports from Henschel in Germany.
My personal experience dates back to 1985, and more recent units seem to be developments of the DF4, but I can only judge from published details.
The GEs were C36-7s, over 400 units and most of these are believed to be still in service.
Peter
Mr. Hemphill, thanks for your input on the dieselizing of China’s railroads. Certainly, it comes as no surprise that China remains well behind Western railroad technology. Without competition there is little incentive for huge expenditures on research and development. “It goes with the territory.” However, I expect that is changing with the increasing demands put on the Country’s industries due to their growing share in world markets. China probably (very soon) will find a dire need for modernizing their ground transportation if they wi***o sustain and expand this meteoric rise in global trade. Ultimatly, I suppose, that could mean future orders for new U.S. locomotives but the government is such an enigma, it is difficult predict what may develop. By the way, where did China’s original steam locos hail from?
I spent some time in China in early 1986 and was a guest of the Ministry of Railways in the loco. factory in Datong witnessing the production/testing of thier QJ locos. I have very recently heard from a man that I befriended during that visit that Chinas decision to replace steam with diesels/electrics is being re-visited at “the highest levels” of the National gov’t. in Bejing due to the extreme run up in world crude oil prices and Chinas incredible appetite for oil in uses where coal can not be substituted. He believes that it is 50/50 that they may decide to reverse direction as China(like America) is coal rich and oil poor. He thinks that if the price of crude again goes above $50/barrel and stays there for the next 6/9 months that they will decide to reverse direction??? Considering that the plants that produced the vast majority of thier steam loco’s. are still intact and that the serviceing infrastructures are still in place it would be a relatively easy decision to implement. He says the biggest argument against staying with/returning to steam is the fear that it would be viewed as a “return to the past” by the world community. It will be interesting to see how it plays out!
Guys,
China is a really interesting and complex place, and I’d recommend a visit to anyone interested in railroads. Outside the main cities accommodation standards are variable but the place is generally “safe”. Many people do speak English, and in areas where steam was working, the interests of railfans are understood.
A friend, Roger Gillard, whose photos of Chinese steam have been widely published, indicated recently that there were other, less scenic sections of the “Ji-Tong” line still largely steam worked. It is the “Jing Peng Pass” with the spiral track that is losing steam operation right now. It could be expected that under present policies, steam will go from those areas too, fairly soon.
The “Ji-Tong” line is a recently constructed line, privately owned and operated, and the decision to adopt steam power when the line was opened was a commercial decision, based on the availability of steam locomotives becoming surplus from the government railways and the cost of fuel.
This line, and the government lines, have modern standards of civil engineering, concrete ties, heavy rail, modern reinforced concrete bridges and so on.
To answer Mark’s question the Chinese diesel engines are reverse engineered versions, not copied directly. In fact, there were two versions of rhe 240mm bore engine, one with the “Alco” arrangement of side by side connecting rods and another with the GE articulated rod arrangement (the latter built at Beijing). The head of the Beijing factory admitted that they had copied some GE features. Both engines had welded crankcases, however. China never adopted the Russian copies of the Alco 539, and built modified versions of the locomotives concerned using six cylinder versions of the Russian copy of the Fairbanks Morse 38D 8-1/8. The FM engine was also used in the 10 cylinder version, 10L207E, in main line line units built at Dalien.
To answer Ted’s question, Chinese steam locomotives came from two main streams of d
I know, but Dalien…(I had to look up in Jane’s) doesn’t ryhme with anything but Eileen which only goes with a bad Dexy’s Midnight Runner’s song from the eighties…
Dan,
I did overlook that difficulty! I agree that Dalien is difficult to rhyme.
But nothing rhymes with “Chattanooga” either!
Chinese rolling stock factories with a clear two syllable sound include:
Tangshan, Datong, Beijing
With three syllables:
Qiqihar (pronounced Chi-chi- har!)
I await with interest any further musical interludes on Chinese railways.
Peter
Thank you M63C and Mr. Hemphill for such astute enlightenment. The mention of U.S.R.A. cleared-up any former doubts I had as to the photos of 1950’s steam in China. Regarding “musical interludes on Chinese railways;” how about that old classic: “Cathay Jones sitting at the throttle?” My apologies
The Chinese ought to use up all their high sulfur coal before going to diesels and electrics; at least satisfy the job market.
if the Chinese decided to build new steam engines, this would be outstanding news for a railfan.
however, I have some doubts, since they have an ambitious electrification-programm for their main-lines.
AFAIK, the Ji-Tong-line is not privately owned but belongs to a province, not to the central government.
When the “Three Gorges Dam” is completed, China will very likely go to electric locomotives. I doubt they would take on the considerable expense required for building new steam turbines but wouldn’t that be a great thought? Imagine seeing C. & O. and Pennsy’s late steam turbine technology back on the rails.
Martin,
Thanks for the ownership information regarding the Ji Tong line. I was probably told that the line was “independent” and I interpreted this wrongly. I believe the steam locomotives had to be purchased from the central government.
Ted,
The locomotives that looked most like the USRA series were the JF1 Mikados, originally built by Alco in 1918. There were more than 2000 built by the Japanese, and locomotives numbered above 2120 were built by the Chinese. The JS used this chassis with a Russian boiler design. They were much smaller and lighter than real USRA locomotives, but even so lighter versions (class JF6) were built, and these were developed into the SY class, which are still around in some industries.
I found a real Chinese gas turbine locomotive, said to be about 3000HP in a shed at Harbin in 1980. I don’t think it had been run for some time even then. I don’t expect to see steam turbines, but it’s not out of the question. About the time of Ross Rowland’s visit in 1986 they were trying two different advanced steam designs in Datong (where the gas turbine was built).
Peter
Thanks for the great information. No Peter, I wasn’t serious about seeing a resurrection of steam power in China or anywhere else for obvious reasons. The mechanical and labor effeciency just can’t match the diesel or full electrics. I threw the “thought” in only as a steam enthusiast’s dream come true. Perhaps we will be fortunate enough to view “state approved” documentary photos of China’s steam before they meet the “torch.?” P.B.S. did a fine documentary on India’s last days of running steam locos, I believe in the 1990’s. I wonder if their “gas turbine” was similar in any way to the experimental Union Pacific unit built circa mid-1950’s if I recall? This “gargantuan” was so loud and exhaust so hot that it was banned by authorities from running through cities and urban centers. An article in Trains Magazine mentioned that the heat from the exhaust of a unit idleing under a highway overpass melted the asphalt on the bridge span. Seems far fetched but it must have happened.
The Turbine I saw was quite a bit smaller than the UP units. It was a six axle unit (the early UP units had eight axles). It was a double ended box cab unit painted two tone green, with the darker green below. It had a turbine with a centifugal compressor and can type combusion chambers, while the GE turbines were of the axial-flow variety. It had a small auxiliary diesel generator, presumably for starting the turbine. There were two generators mounted in line on the turbine output shaft. These drove six traction motors on the axles. One other unit to a slightly bigger design was also built.
Peter