Wow, a great video!!!. The station with it circlar span looks a bit European.
Reading Terminal was an amazing place in the 1970s: the range of equipment and colors had to be seen to be believed – black and white doesn’t do it justice. Think several flavors of Silverliner, RDCs, green MUs, Blueliner MUs, fancy-painted FP7s all lined up apparently at random beside one another.
Note the delightful ticket booth, apparently a result of alien abduction and cloning of an early Burlington Zephyr. I never cared for it then, as my design taste at the time was decidedly elsewhere, but you couldn’t ignore the thing.
The shed ought to be compared with the one at PRR’s Broad Street station, which very famously burned in the mid-'20s (and was, unlike the Reading one, removed along with its ‘Chinese wall’ approach). Note that even without trains, the Reading building remains amazing.
It was an operational nightmare, a stub-end station with convergence from multiple suburban lines and the West Trenton connection to New York, and little connectivity with the ex-PRR commuter lines that in many cases provided parallel service. Don’t even ask about convenient connections to Amtrak service (or SEPTA-NJT service north along the Corridor)
The ‘right answer’ (esthetically unpleasing as it is) was to build a tunnel connecting 30th St. with Suburban Square and connect the ex-Reading services through there. By that point neither the FP7 top-n-tail service nor the dedicated RDC Wall Street/Crusader trains were going through the area, so an all-electric connection underground was practicable.
I found it a bit difficult to anticipate where particular R-number trains will be in the new station organization – but that’s just me; there’s little doubt that the new setup is greatly more convenient for commuters.
I think it’s more appropriate to think of them (meaning, as I think you are asking, the ex-Reading SEPTA trains) as being ‘moved’ to Suburban Square, with greatly enhanced connections to and via the facilities at 30th Street. Others may have a different opinion of what the actual SEPTA routes and operations do.
In conjunction with the ‘tempus edat rerum’ thread, I didn’t have much time to watch the last great days of the Reading Terminal show – but I did get to be there at least once while it was in its prime. I wouldn’t want to go back to it instead of what’s there now, though, as the train-riding to “get places” is tremendously better. Just a couple of days ago I was anticipating having to get from Silver Spring, MD to Yardley, PA, something that would have involved a considerable amount of consternation with the Reading network sepa
Thanks. Yes I meant ex-Reading SEPTA lines.
Clearly connections now are much better, but I am going to assume (quite possibly in error) that most patrons in the past were commuters to Center City strictly using one SEPTA line from their suburb and return.
I recall a great Trains article about how quickly service was restored after the Reading fire. Doubtless that was another lost skill.
Think they moved the ticket counter to Niigata Falls
The Flying Saucer Restaurant in the Falls…huge nasty breakfast’s.
The terminal is now the Convention Center. The train shed is the convention center and Reading Terminal Market operates at street level under the floor of the elevated trainshed. The market has been in operation since the Reading opened the terminal in 1893. Market East, the station that repaced the Reading Terminal is right across the street and underground. The viaduct leading up to the Reading train shed still stands (The Great Wall) and there has been talk of making it a linear park similar to the NYC High Line.
I think your assumption is right, with the codicil that we’re referring to Reading services, commuters choosing to use their service for whatever reason, and including more widespread passenger service (notably the New York Line via West Trenton), and continuing to use the same lines once they were taken over into SEPTA just as you said. This is much the same sort of ‘star topography’ seen in the ex-PRR lines, or for that matter much of the commuter service ultimately going into GCT in the New York area, where commuters coming from a disparate number of places were funnelled into a central ‘terminal’ and not so much connecting through that terminal to go out to a different branch. There would be exceptions, of course (Temple University probably being one) but there is still the assumption that it is Reading-only connections, not transfers between routes. (Interestingly, the most famous of the named Reading passenger trains were Jersey City - Harrisburg and ran north of the Philadelphia terminal, perhaps reminiscent of the PRR trains that went via North Philadelphia)
Bet a hat you mean the Broad Street fire of June 1923. The only Reading fire I have heard of happened around 1960, and I don’t think it was particularly catastrophic.
About ten years ago we took the SEPTA ex-Reading line from Norristown into the Reading Terminal replacement, then called Market East, now Jefferson station. It was simply platforms on the 4 track tunnel line toward Suburban station. Connecting the two former stub ended terminals into thru stations made a very efficient commuter operation. As an ex-Reading line train came into downtown, it became an outgoing ex-PRR line train, and vice versa. Eliminates terminating downtown trains on both lines, and also does away with terminal coach yards.
Something similar could happen with NY Penn Station, for instance if proposed ex-NH trains into Penn Station could become outbound NJT trains. With changable 3rd rail shoes, proposed Hudson Line trains into NYP could become LIRR outbound trains. Would help solve some NYP congestion.
A couple of minor problems with the suggestions for Penn Station. Metro North goes to GCT, not Penn Station. The hardware changes would not be cheap and the suggested operation would require dedicated equipment or re-equipping all equipment whether they would operate in such service or not.
Lastly, multiple operators would be involved and a crew change would be necessary. Negotiations with the operating Brotherhoods for through crews would be difficult at best.
This was implied in his use of “Hudson Line”. The context is partly in reference to running some traffic that currently goes to Penn via the Hell Gate route) over the ex-New Haven between New Rochelle and Woodlawn, then running briefly on the Hudson Line to divert up the Empire Connection at Spuyten Duyvil instead of ‘turning left’ via Marble Hill.
Most of the ‘hardware change’ is making and then maintaining shoes capable of reliable operation on both underrunning and overrunning third rail. I have seen a number of proposals to do that well. I have also seen a couple of well-intended ideas that did NOT work out well when built.
I would start this service using push/pull with dual modes and put smart shoes on the locomotives, as (to me at least) that’s an easier technical implementation, and expands (somewhat) the areas where these trains could be run. Nowhere near as flexible as a dedicated fleet of MUs, but it would certainly establish where any ‘through operation’ between regions generates enough traffic or enthusiasm to justify the added cost and trouble, and would find most of the problems before any great investment in MU conversion would have to be undertaken.
I don’t know how large a dedicated fleet of MUs would have to be to cover the ‘peak’ service requirements for the various routes proposed, plus reserve. It would certainly be large. Any substantial use of ‘run-through’ from underrunning to overrunning regions would, as you note, have to be larger still, perhaps fleet-wide. That is not a bad thing for the
You’d lose. I believe the Trains article concerned a Reading Terminal fire. The only reason it was not a major problem (‘catastrophic’ was your word, not mine) was the ingenuity displayed by the Reading.
The Reading Elevated Line is due to be the next “High Line” Park on the East Coast, Does anyone here know the name of the Elevated Station midway on the Reading EL
I guess I should have been clearer on the routes.
Th ex-NH line trains for Penn Station would leave the normal route at New Rochelle and travel over the NEC to Penn Station, where they could become NJT trains. I understand that NJT quipment can handle NH line cat, but that the MetroNorth/CDOT equipment can’t go to Penn, Not sure if it’s the cat or just that the 3rd rail shoe needs to retract.
MetroNorth Hudson line trains for NYP would follow the Empire Service trains at Sputyn Devil to NYP, to then become LIRR trains. RME reminded me that in NH days only the locos were equiped with changable 3rd rail shoes, and both MN and LIRR have locos (dual mode for travel beyond electric zones).
I heard that in Phily, SEPTA crews change at Suburban Station (the transition point between ex-PRR and ex-RDG). As I remember in the early days of MetroNorth, the trains off the ex-NH were all CDOT orange cars and the ex-NYC trains were green cars. Now the two colors seem to be freely mixed.
They still use part of the elevated structure before they dive underground, and I remember that the Temple University station was in that section.
Saw it in person in May of 1984, you all paid for me via tax money to sit around and drink beer and party for three weeks spending my weekends in Atlantic City, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Del…etc. Waiting at Ft. McGuire AFB for a flight to my next Active Army unit…ah what a life.
About 6 months after I arived in Germany the DM went to I think it was 3.5 DM to the Dollar…then it was take your choice Mercedes or BMW to Bremen (winter) or Bremerhaven (summer - North Sea coast). It was nice at times. Got tired of the weather and sometimes the politics over there though.
As for the Reading Terminal trainshed, as historic as it was. It really was an eyesore and I would have torn it down if I were the major, it’s ugly appearance and the approach tracks really dominated the landscape of that part of the city and made it look like it was frozen in time from the 1920’s. THough I guess they could have kept it if like the Europeans IF they did a much better job of hiding the approach tracks and trainshed with other buildings or vegitation.
One thing not mentioned here (but maybe I missed it) is that if you are traveling on Amtrak and, rather than end your trip at 30th Street Station, you would prefer to go to the convention center area closer to center city you just go upstairs to the suburban station area at 30th Street and take the next train EB on certain lines (ask about which ones at the info booth). Show the conductor your Amtrak ticket and you can ride free to Jefferson Station. This will save you abit on cab fares and traffic congestion.
| 1984 | 2.8450 Deutsche mark to 1.0 dollar |
|---|---|
| 1985 | 2.9420 Deutsche mark to 1.0 dollar |