I’ve been an armchair guy for a few years. As a kid, I built 3 or so 4 x 8 layouts.
This time around, my plan has been to go “shelf” style.
It seems however, by definition, to have an “around the walls” style layout, in a small space, you have to have either a duckunder, or two big “blobs”
I could, instead, build a 4 x 8 or 5 x 8 or so layout in the same space with a backdrop down the middle (to create two scenes) and have no “blobs”, and have a 22" minimum radius.
I know myself well enough to know that a duckunder will impede progress, and maybe in itself cause me to lose interest, and view the layout as a hassle.
The layout also must occupy the same space as my workshop. So I’d have to “duck under” just to get a hammer or screwdriver while in the garage. (I can already see the pile of tools accumulating from not ducking under to get back to the toolbox).
I’ve been thinking around the walls is the way to go for years, but now I’m seeing some serious advantages to the island, completely self-conained layout.
I have about an 8ft x 12ft space to work with. Go ahead, try to convince me why an island layout with a backdrop down the center isn’t the way to go. And keep in mind I do not want a duckunder, and I do want continuous running, and that I have to share the space with my workshop.
I went shelf and island kinda…i like it so far, it is 12x8, 20" deep all around, as you can tell it is still in construction, only a few weeks in, who knows if ill like my decision down the road…still not too savy with the backdrop to come…good luck
I understand you dont want duckunders but just put it up for thought, if you put your layout lofty enough, mabye chin or neck level to yourself, you wont have to duck too much. My original idea was to have and L shape shelf layout around two walls and at either end have it extend out maybe four feet for a reverse loop on either end! but after a while i came up with my current benchwork. just keep drawing ideas on graph paper and think outside the box, my idea was half shelf against the wall / half “island” sorta, good luck, Ben
I’m not going to try to convince you. You should do what you already know you should do, but your logic makes you second guess. (I’d cheat a little and sneak some staging in even if it is on track and three inches on one wall.)
It’s 8’ X 11’, three sheets of 5/8" tongue-and-groove side by side. I have a pop-up hatch in the middle of the far lake (I think it is still green with masking tape in this photo) to access the far tunnel portals.
You get a great vista, nice curves, lots of open space. I would never have such a large mountain again; too much unseen running time for trains.
However, your space is much smaller than mine, so shelf, even in two levels, might be the way to go if you have no need for loops.
a 4x8 is 32 square feet
assuming 2 foot wide shelves , a room 8x12 gives you 64 square feet
simple math gives all the reason i need , my potential space is 14x8 and will also require some way to get inside the layout space . i’m considering a lift out section rather than a duckunder , i already know that a duckunder will make me unhappy
In an 8X12 space, an island layout with decent aisles (18" to 36") and 22" radius yields a table layout of about 4X8 to 5X10 max, right? (Longer if you put one short edge against a wall). I linked to this example some time ago and got some grief from the 4X8 fans because of the need for access hatches.
The sketch is in an 8X10 space, in an 8X12 space, you could actually do something like this and still leave access space around the blobs to eliminate access hatches in one or both blobs.
Just an alternative … I can imagine how workbenches and tools on casters could duck under the benchwork. You’d still have a decent space in the center of the room for handling bulky jobs.
You might consider a swing up. I have four of them spanning two doors. two are for a corner door that have multi-track 90 degree turns, the other’s are a 40 and 56 inch long, all are designed to quickley lift up over center and stay upright by themselves.
What I really like about my two level around the room layout, everything is handey to reach, tools, supplys, and operators are centraley located in the middle of the room instead of having to walk around the outer edge of the layout.
Granted it takes a bit of design and effort to do it right, but I can catch the phone on the third ring in the next room, or head out the other door to my work shop.
You might also find and old narrow desk to keep your most needed tools handy under the layout.
I sent Blind bruce some photos and he kiddenly said I was the “King of Swing” LOL. Email me if you wish.
John
I have thought about a swing up section near a doorway also. My question is do you have a “Kill Switch” attached to your lift up design to stop any trains that are running when you run to catch the phone in the next room? I am thinking about some way to do this when I finalize my layout design.
I havent installed a micro swich yet, I will do this when I get into DCC. I will wire all four swing ups throught the micro’s to the main buss when I swich over. Im running off three transformers now and weould be a pain to wire in now.
I only ran one off. I learn quick and like the conducor was reported to say, "Sir the train is right on time…one day late.
I suppose it depends on what you want, but a shelf layout is very practical. Mine is at 55", so it sits above my workbench, and there is plenty of storage below it. I’ll admit that my workbench is more of a storage bench and I do most of my work on a Workmate or some other temproary set up. The light isn’t too good under the layout. Also my layout is point to point. There is no loop or circle at all. Real trains don’t run in circles. I run back and forth or turn the train at the end of the line, but not everyone thinks that is a fun way to run.
I agree that duckunders are something to avoid. Especially when you’re 6’3" tall.
I’d really recommend you try a lift up. They should solve your access problems, but do remember the cut-off switch.
My feeling is that workshop needs to be seperate from layout. Meshing the 2 into one is not good. You will not want to enter your layout just for a tool.
However, I understand the workshop must be there. So, if you gave up 4-5 feet on one side, you could have a good shop. How about 5x8 workshop area?Then you have an extra few feet at one end for maybe an industrial branch.
Few ideas to get you rolling.
If you want to have the workshop inside the around the wall, then I recommend instead of a bridge you have 2 reverse loops at the ends so that you can easily walk in. The layout will also have to be lofty, because the workbench should not interfere with trains.
I had breifly consided a duct under and a flip up but decided it was more hassle then it was worth. I have a 14x16 area with a 5x6 area taken for access to my office. A flip up would provide me some nice possiblities in layout design. In the end tho’ I decide ease of moving around was more important . (design for people not track right??) My only real suggestion to you would be to put one of the short ends against the wall (in a 4x8 or 5x8). That shouldn’t limit your access to the layout much and might allow you an extra foot of length for the layout or more room for your work area.
What are the dimensions of the layout you went with?
Yes, I agree with the “design for people” philosophy.
I could put a short end up against the wall. I was thinking maybe 5 & 1-2 x 8ft layout - something like that. Could still have 22" radius curves and plenty of switching, believe it or not!
I totally hear you about the lift up section. This, however, will require really good alignment between various sections. Maybe easy, maybe not. (I’m a mechanical engineer, so designing in adjustments, etc., will be right up my alley, but my engineering design experience also makes me favor simplicity).
I’m seriously torn between island or around the walls. Well, not around the walls, but “around the space where I’ll stand”. The garage also includes other things, one being a car.
Picture BNSF97’s space shown in his post above, but remember that that space also includes my workshop space!
