Getting ready to get started on my first HO layout, I’ll be working in a 18x 20 area. I am staying away from any duckunders, lift outs ect…
If you had to do it all over again, what would you change, include, or avoid?
Thanks,
David
On my 2.5’ by 4’ N scale portable layout, I would have avoided using fascia board on the bottom of the layout and just used it on the sides. It’s MUCH heavier with the fascia board on the bottom, and I’m paying for that now.
The LION’s layout is a walk in, and while I have made many changes on it recently, if you are rebuilding from scratch:
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NO under table wiring. Wiring panels are along the front of the layout (behind a curtain, but you can do it differently, maybe shelves and doors under your layout). For switches, lights, relays and misc, I use a 25 pair cat 3 telephone cable and terminate it at panels about every 10 to 15 feet. Drop a wire below the layout and pull it over to the nearest panel. I did the same thing for track power except that I bought 250’ of four conductor 14 ga in-the-wall type speaker wire. It is so nice using new wire after all of the found stuff I had been (and still am) using.
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Install plenty of AC along the fascia. either get an electrician to do it, do it your self if you are able, or else daisy chain power strips if you have to.
ROAR
Based on Davids question
See and operate as many layouts as you can!! I can’t stress this one enough. You will see, discover & learn so many things that you may not have even known existed to even consider for your layout. The Op SIG group is great for this http://www.opsig.org/
Start with something smaller for your first layout. You can make just as many mistakes and learn from them on a smaller layout as you can a larger one… Use this to define what you are looking for out of model railroading
Have an objective. Given and Druthers are a nice start but you need more. This should help http://www.layoutvision.com/id51.html It doesn’t have to be cast in stone but you’ll be happier with some form of direction. Also from Byron’s site http://www.layoutvision.com/id13.html
Use quality materials. Don’t go cheap on your materials. Wait if you must. This is for building your layout as well as outfitting it too.
Lastly, remember to have fun
ratled
bonus one - if you can get a quality mentor that will always help
BroadwayLion
Daisy chain power strips??? I smell smoke!!![:^)]
Dave
Similar thread from a while back with useful ideas, worth a look:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/167342.aspx
For a much longer take on my opinions, see the last post in the cited thread.
The condensed version can be boiled down into four letters:
KISS
As in, “Keep it simple, Simon!” For openers, don’t try to cram every possible noodle into the bowl of ramen. Leave the multi-slipswitch puzzle palaces for later - but also leave room to add them.
I am building in a similar space - but I would NOT recommend my design to anyone not walking around in my socks (no shoes in a Japanese house, please.) It’s the result of a lifetime of layout planning and construction, and embodies a concept that has been set in stone since 1964.
You’ve made a good start with, “No swinging gates, liftouts or duckunders.” Now, if you can arrange to keep everything within reach of an access aisle, you’ll really be on to something.
Good luck (found at the intersection of preparation and opportunity.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
After a number of layouts that used 4x4 or larger sheets of plywood I have gone modular and love it. I can rearrange and move things easily. I have an HO layout and all my modules are 2X4ft. Easy to work on and transport.
RMax
hi,
a 20 x18 area is huge. Staying away from duck-unders or lift-outs seems great. You could enter your plan on here, someone might find a few issues.
Since you stated you are rather new a lot of pitfalls could be yours. The most obvious one is building a to complicated and to large railroad. Having a masterplan in mind is not bad at all. Building in phases, sections or modules that can be accomplished in a limited amount of time is a great option.
Questions about the kind of operations you like, the era and locale and the kind of trains you would love to run will be asked. If you love bigboys with 50 cars in tow you also need big radii and long turnouts (R min between 30" and 40" and #8 turnouts); the same applies for passenger trains. Running trains can be done on many ways; is the emphasis on dispatching? Or when role-playing are you the engineer of a way-freight? How big a crew do you envision?
One of my first questions would be about the way you envision (un)coupling and about layout height; they can’t be seen apart.
Anyway without knowing your wishes a sensible discussion is imposible. A drawing of your space, with all obsticles clearly visible (like doors) is a great way to start. A first draft of your plan as well, just as much as giving information about what you to achieve. Opening a general thread about other’s mistakes sounds like a way to avoid showing your plans.
Smile
Paul
If I had to do it all over again? any advice to you?
RUN!!! As FAR, AS FAST as you can!!! STEP AWAY from A layout!!!
You will get hooked, it will consume massive amounts of time, money and energy.
It will cause you to lie {“uh, no, honey, I’ve had THAT loco for a long time honey”], sneak around {“I’ll be right there honey” as you sneak in a NEW loco to the layout}, and cheat {using strong hairspray to hold foliage on trees instead of glue because “who will know?”}.
It will provide long hours of enjoyment, amaze others and disturb pets! It will cause consternation when others want to “play with your tains too”, especially when the wife says " aw,honey, let them’.
But it will be worth it.
*Decide in advance if you want DC or DCC and wire accordingly.
*solder frequent track joiners, but leave some for natural heat expansion to avoid buckling. Good electrical conductivity or DCC continuity will insure good operations.
*be sure to include enough feeder wires.
- test your track thoroughly before making it “permenant” to be sure you have good trackwork.
These and more will cause you fewer heartburns down the road.
[8-|]
You mentioned the five key words in your question.
“do it all over again”
No matter what people tell you, you are going to make mistakes, you are going to screw up, you are going to have regrets. Eventually, you are going to do it all over again.
Rather than ask, what would you change, include, or avoid, you should ask how did you do this or that?
You need to be concerned about things like framework and layout surfaces, height and width of layout, size of turnouts, wiring considerations, things like that.
After you build your first layout, you will find out what you like and what you dislike. You will learn what you did right and what you did wrong. Then, you will move on to build your second layout, and you will do it better.
Rich
a 20 by 18 ft. area is HUGE and it just begs to be filled with track.
What would I do if I had that much space available for a layout?
I would certainly not fill it with a lot of track, but would use the space to build a simple layout, allowing for a lot of scenic details, just to give me this feeling of a train running through a generous scenery.
Less is more!
You got yourself a good size space so your off to a great start. I would recommend you make it modular unless your 110% sure you will never be moving. Where are you building it? Make sure the room your building it in is finished.
If I were starting over, I would obviously avoid ALL mistakes this time around. [:)]
Of course, I’m human, so that ain’t gonna happen. Really, the BIGGEST mistake you can make is in not admitting that you made one.
Some classics that have killed me over the years:
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Shoddy trackwork – especially elevation changes
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“It’ll never show” – sometimes it doesn’t, but the camera has a way of finding all the little boo-boos in a fast hurry.
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Rushing to get something done.
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Forgetting to have fun along the way.
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Not experimenting with different techniques and materials.
Hi,
My goodness, I’ve been there, done that. In the early '90s I built a room filling two level HO layout in a 11x15 spare room. It was in place for 14 years, until I striped the room and rebuilt a new one - similar in appearance, but with DCC.
During the building and life of the first one, I kept lists of “what went right”, “what went wrong”, “what I would do again”, " what I wouldn’t do again". Man, I ended up with a pretty good set of lists, referencing design, benchwork, wiring, scenery, etc., etc. The list was a terrific help in designing and building the new one.
To answer your question, the earlier layout had 5 major faults (IMHO) that I did not want to repeat:
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I built in a reverse loop on the incline going to the lower level staging area. It was an accident waiting to happen and I rarely used it.
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I built a raised reverse loop on the main level, which was nice, but took up a lot of valuable real estate and because it was raised, hid a lot of structures and scenery.
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I put in turnouts in tunnels and out of sight locations, making them hard to get to and were the source of many derailments due to operator error. Have to say, the Atlas turnouts/machines worked flawlessly.
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I got too ambitious with the number of blocks and wiring in three separate throttles. Between that and the reverse loops, if you were away from the layout for a week or more, you had to relearn it all over again.
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Lastly, I had way too many rock facings for the layout, and worse, I colored them too dark. As Emeril would say, you can always add (color), but you can’t take away. The rocks and strata looked pretty good, but they were just overpowering and too dark.
One more comment, the best thing I did for the new layout was to convert to DCC. If it had been on the first layout, who knows, it might still be with me.
Good Luck!
Nah… I am using high quality components, and they are there for convenience. I am using the same five tools no matter which one they are plugged in to, and of these, only two draw power at any one time, and of these the one on all of the time is a 20W soldering iron.
There are also two power drills, one for screws the other for holes, and two motor tools, one with a cut-off wheel and the other for other bits. Of these, I can only use one at a time. And they are not really daisy chained, but each one is plugged directly into a heavy duty extension cord, the kind with three recepticals at the end. So the LION feels safe with this arrangement.
Heretofore he was dragging extension cords on the floor, tripping over them, tangling them, walking on them and rolling my tool cart over them. This is much better.
ROAR
Why would this be a fire hazard?
Rich
In building my current layout, I picked up a 12v DeWalt cordless drill - and about the same time I inherited the exact same model from my father in law. So with the two of them, and 4 batteries, I had one in use for drilling pilot holes and the other for attaching the screws.
Having the cordless drills was much more convenient then corded ones - but of course that was only workable by having the extra batteries so there was always two charged ones available.
- I would have never said, “Oh, I’ll fix that later”. Later always turns out to be sooner than I thought.
- I would have made my layout legs using the L-shaped 1x4s with adjusters from the beginning.
- I would have made more of it an “around the walls” shelf layout. But, then, I was married to a different woman and she wanted half the basement (which she never used for anything), then we got divorced.
Don’t wait for the room to be perfect - if you can’t get it ready in a year or less start building something anyway. Otherwise you’ll still be waiting to get started ten years from now.
Enjoy
Paul