Hello all! I’m interested in incorporating a remote control system to my layout and know not much about the remote systems. I do want Lionel Legacy or the initial TMCC Cab 1. Which one should I start with? I am not worried about the Legacy costing more. I currently have no high dollar locos but would not rule it out. I want remote control and am hoping it’s not so complicated that it’s a hassle to deal with. Thanks. I use Gargraves track(I’m aware this doesn’t t matter much in regard to remote), and I use KW transformers.
If you acquire any mid to high-end Lionel engines made in the past 8 years, Legacy is definitely worth considering over regular TMCC. Anything with the Odyssey system(pretty much all TMCC engines made by Lionel in the past 8 years) will run 100% better when run under Legacy.
Of course, you also need Legacy to really run Legacy engines well, and all high-end Lionel engines for the foreseeable future will have Legacy.
As far as what you need-I’d suggest picking up a Legacy system, and a TPC 300 for every power block you have. This will allow you to remotely control your conventional engines with the CAB-2.
I am far from an authority on the subject, and still have a lot to learn myself. If cost is not a major consideration, the Legacy would be a better choice, as it will do everything that the original TMCC will do and more. Legacy will run every TMCC locomotive available. All the Legacy Locomotives are backwards compatible as well, and can be controlled with a TMCC (1) system, but there will be features that You will not be able to access without the Legacy control system. So if there is a possibilty of buying any Legacy equipped locomotives in the future, You would already be set to handle them with no further purchases or modifications, on the track and away you go.
Thats MY [2c],
Doug
Thanks for your response. I guess I will go Legacy I hope it’s easy to use. I do imtend to go after some high end equipment in the future. Thanks again.
Paul
As one who started in the hobby two years ago, I had the same question. I decided to wait until Legacy came out. People who get Legacy now compared to six or eight months ago are not early adopters anymore. The system is in its second version of firmware/software. Although the system is still evolving, it is pretty solid.
While I could get a new computer with Microsoft XT (if I hunted), I would prefer one with Vista. While Vista still has bugs (every complex operating system will) it will be supported over a longer period and provides greater functionality. I think the same is true of Legacy compared to TMCC.
Ben: I’m a bit confused with this statement. Odyssey came out long before Legacy. Why would you need Legacy to make 100% use of Odyssey? Wasn’t Odyssey made to be used in conventional mode or with TMCC? I’m pretty sure Odyssey has an “On/Off” switch on the loco, so it’s not even mandatory under TMCC.
Odyssey was always designed to use more than 32 speed steps (256 steps originally). The original CAB-1 is the problem with using Odyssey under TMCC. It can only send relative speed step commands. The command base and locomotives know about absolute speeds steps but for 99.99% of the operating community the CAB-1 was the only way to control the trains (the other .01% used computer software via the DB-9 serial port on the command base). Lionel tried coming up with translational curves to work with Odyssey equipped loco’s but these were never satisfactory with the CAB-1. The CAB-2 supports absolute speed steps (TMCC mode) and that is what you will program most of the loco’s for use (except Legacy). CAB-1 is reserved for devices like the TPC and accessories like the crane car where relative speed steps work fine. Odyssey equipped loco’s work beautifully under TMCC mode with the legacy controller. Not all Odyssey units had on/off switches. Early loco’s used a keypad combo to shut it off and this would have to be done every time you re powered the engine.
Sorry, I meant to say that Odyssey runs 100% better under Legacy(for the reason Chuck gave).
I appologize for any confusion I may have caused. I have edited my original post to reflect this.
Could one of you give me a ball park figure on what the cost might be to move from entirely conventional layout with a smattering of Lionel and MTH engines to Legacy?
Bob
There are no Legacy upgrades at this time. Upgrading a conventional engine to tmcc, I’ve spent anywhere from $100 - $200 depending if I added a sound upgrade.[:)]
I upgraded my Pennsylvania Flyer set’s steam engine (from a $200 set) with a Train America Studios (TAS) TMCC board that cost more than $200, including remote control and sound. It works fine, but really does not perform as well as a new TMCC engine…it makes a fairly loud whining noise when driven at slow speeds and it really isn’t cost effective.
Why did I do it then? For two reasons: 1) curiosity 2) I wanted everything I owned to be remote controlled (TMCC/Legacy)
I think he meant to control conventional engines as opposd to converting conventional engines to command control? AKA what components do you need and what do those cost?
OK then, $250 - 300 for Legacy. $100+ for each tpc needed - ex. 1 for each separate powered loop. This will get you 1 engine in each powered section. TMCC or Legacy engines - 2 or more in a powered section if transformer can handle them.
My outside main voltage is set at 16v to run Tmcc engines only. (well I could run conventional there if I used the KW handles) [:I]
My inside main has a KW feeding a tpc to vary track voltage to run conventional engines, to run tmcc engines there, I can set the tpc to max voltage & then address the tmcc engines.
IF I didn’t have command engines I would need a 2nd tpc for the outside main.
** And if none of this makes sense, sorry. I’ve been raking leaves all day & I’m beat. [xx(]
I use TPC’s for both Command and non Command. I don’t like to run at 18 volts so I dial up the TPC’s to 14-15 or whatever will fire the couplers. You need a variable power source like a TPC or PowerMaster or one terminal from a modern ZW to control EACH block you wish to control separately. Please note that the TPC’s and the ZW will talk to Legacy directly while the older PowerMaster can only talk to a CAB-1 until the bridge box comes out. The PowerMasters and CAB-1 predate the rest of the TMCC system and they “talk” via the CB radio band. ALL OTHER TMCC devices are controlled by the serial port on the Legacy or TMCC command base or by means of the track based radio signals. BTW, the command signal goes all over the layout so command equipped engines can move in and out of variable blocks so long as there is enough voltage. NEVER let a non command loco wander into a command block unless you like to run the trains at warp speed.
There is a way to “roll” control of power blocks by using Block Power Controllers, but I would file usage of these under an advanced category. You could set up four blocks to be controlled by two TPC’s using a BPC but it’s probably easier and possibly cheaper to just use more TPC’s.
Thanks for the replies. Frankly, for one with no remote control experience, I find it pretty confusing trying to understand what all of this equipment is. I need to spend some serious time researching what Odysee is,TMCC, and Legacy Controlled and how they relate to operations and each other.
Odyssey is/was Lionel’s term for a closed loop back speed control system that has been replaced on newer locomotives by Legacy speed control.
Legacy is the blanket term for the new system that includes the electronics packages in the locomotives, upgraded sound system, and the new command base. The new controller is called a CAB-2
TMCC means Train Master Command Control. This is the first generation of command control Lionel introduced back in 1994.
Legacy is an expanded/updated version of TMCC. ALL older TMCC equipment can be controlled by the new Legacy Command Base and CAB-2 (in fact the stuff works better for a number of reasons). All of the new Legacy locomotives can be controlled under the older original TMCC system (aka Command Base and CAB-1) but you can’t access Legacy specific features (e.g. quillable whistle, Legacy speed control). The only thing you can’t control from Legacy (at this point in time) are the original PowerMasters. These devices are like remote control transformers that you use to control conventional (aka non command) locomotives. The reason these can’t be controlled by Legacy is they talk to the original CAB-1 by way of CB (Citizen’s Band) radio signals. The CAB-2/Legacy operate in the 2.8 ghz range. There is a bridge device that is supposed to allow you to control the older PM’s from Legacy but I don’t believe it’s been released yet.
If you follow the link posted below, you can access an interactive training session on how basic TMCC works.
There is a link called “Try TMCC”
Lionel has some tutorials on how Legacy works on their web site:
Chuck, I thank you for your reply. The explanation cleared up my uncertainty about Odysee and Legacy as well as Cab 1 and 2. I didn’t know Legacy was essentially Odysee updated and that Legacy has speed control. I am interested in the more simple control feaures such as speed and acceleration. I realize this may change with time! Thank you very much.