From looking at the schedule earlier in this post there was indeed a daily connection to/from Philadelphia with the Reading RR at Bethlehem. Was there a through car, or was it “all change at Bethlehem”?
If I might paraphrase and disagree with Edna St. Vincent Millay, The John Wilkes was probably a better train to observe than to ride.
Something there most certainly wasn’t was a through car that went to Reading Terminal and then back out to New York (probably via West Trenton and the CNJ), which would be the implication in the post. It is highly likely that any PRR “Wilkes-Barre to New York” service would have gone via Philadelphia if not down the BelDel to Trenton … but LV service, certainly not.
I think it’s unlikely a car would be detached from this train, specially painted and on a relatively hot schedule, just to go to Philadelphia. Especially with competing operator CNJ having close operating ties with the Reading. On the other hand, I’d expect that if you compare the schedule time with a Reading timetable, the train might be one of the premier Reading services from ABE to Philadelphia. (As I am not enough of a Reading fan, I don’t know those…)
Believe me, in those days before the Northeast Extension of the Turnpike was finished, you’d have relished riding the John Wilkes to get to or from Wilkes-Barre, particularly in the wintertime, north of Brodheadsville, or in the summertime anywhere across the middle part of New Jersey. A little part of me is still waiting at the intersection under the Old Road bridge at what I recall was NJ 518 south, in a car without air conditioning, or for the detour to 46 by the old Marcal plant to end when 80 finally made it around Garrett Mountain…
There definitely was, at one time, a though Toronto - Philadelphia or Buffalo - Philadelphia car or cars interchanged between the Valley and the Reading at Bethlahem.
The John Wilkes was not the train, however.
For us, probably. But then it depends on point of view.
I’ll bet a lot of ex-Doughboys riding the “John Wilkes” felt that whatever it’s shortcomings it sure beat riding a “Forty and Eight” car!
I found a four-minute video of some classic Lehigh Valley, which I think all might enjoy.
I enjoyed watching this video. Did you notice that at 1:53 we see a caboose attached to a stock car? All the windows are open in the caboose, so there must have been no escape from the smell for the entire trip!
The Lehigh Valley has always been of some interest to me and as I said, the John Wilkes was a handsome train.
But let’s not compare it to a “Forty and Eight” car doughboys rode. How about comparing it to the Phoebe Snow, which also served Scranton and was probably a better choice for businessmen?
I know: apples to oranges.
Apples to oranges, indeed; the John Wilkes never made it closer to Scranton than the point the train was turned in Pittston.
It does have to be said that LV had nothing like Truesdale’s Cutoff, either. Or reason to run a good train ‘through’ west of Buffalo. But it could be argued that the Black Diamond was competitive with the Phoebe Snow, as far as it went…
Overmod: First, I appreciate the truth of what you said about travel into the anthracite country before the Penna. Turnpike’s Northeast Extension.
Second, the schedule posted earlier here clearly indicates the John Wilkes calls at Scranton (on the “Laurel Line”, whatever that is).
I’ll admit I’m out of my depth on the topic of this train, its railroad, its service area, etc. But take at a look at the schedule. What’s a guy to think? Does the John Wilkes not call at Scranton? How would a traveler be expected to know that from looking at this schedule?
The schedule indicates Scranton to New York service. That makes it a competitor of the Phoebe Snow (or some such DL&W train), does it not?
Yes I did. I suspect that stock car is empty and cleaned out (I hope so!) since typical rules on most, if not all railroads had loaded stock cars placed right behind the engine.
Oho! You have fallen for that old dodge that service via a connecting train is the same as service ON that train.
As I think Mr. Klepper will point out, the “Laurel Line” is an interurban. A very good interurban, mind you, but not the same as a streamlined steam train with chair-car service of the same ‘luxury’ …
The LV consist no more went to Scranton than the City of New Orleans goes to St. Louis. (And my guess is that if you tried to run the John Wilkes over the Laurel Line’s track, you’d have clearance problems of remarkable difficulty…)
If you look at a map that shows the sometimes-convoluted trackage in the Wilkes’Barre-Scranton area, I think the route issue will be clearer, particularly if the map has topo data on it…
Now, what might be fun would be to see if the real LV competition to DL&W name trains also features this “service” - the Black Diamond being the logical candidate competing with the Phoebe Snow ‘apples to apples’. My guess is that considering the likely arrival time for the ‘connection’ and the fun involved in finding an interurban train at that hour, it will not be mentioned the same way… [;)]
Although both PRR and LVRR timetables showed departures from Hudson Terminal that was actually a Hudson & Manhattan train which made connections with trains from Penn Station at Newark, NJ Penn Station.
Let’s pose the question in a different way: A person of means wishes to travel from Scranton to Manhattan (in whatever would be an appropriate year). There are at least two choices, right? A nice DL&W train like the Phoebe Snow or a 5:30 AM interurban ride to a LV RR train. Which is the more likely choice?
No, there’s one. Nothing the Lehigh Valley ran could come close to the time the DL&W could achieve using the Cutoff and the pre-I-80 route around Garrett Mountain.
The Laurel Line – for all the joy of its long tunnel and ‘fountain-luncheonette and newsstand’ at both ends of the trip – would take 38 minutes to make the trip. Think of that as just a little under 1/5 the time the Lackawanna took to get all the way there. If you are wondering why a splendid train like the Bullet did not survive very long … the Lackawanna would have been faster to Wilkes-Barre net of the interurban ride, even if the silly wings didn’t flap.
I suspect this may have accounted for quite a bit of the 4.2-odd million passengers riding the Laurel Line at its peak year during wartime…
I am sure the L&WV interurban connection to and from Scranton was used by Lehigh Valley passenges to and from intermediate points, like Allentown, Betlehem, Easton, Flemington, etc., possibly even conneting with the Reading in Bethlehem to Philadelphia. While possible. the connection would have been better in Pittston, stations in closer poximity than in Willksbare.
Connection with the Reading was interesting, as in the timetable not only is service indicated from Bethlehem into Reading Terminal, but also (by a further change at Wayne Junction) via the B&O into Wilmington, Baltimore, and Washington!
Pittston might make better sense in another respect: it would be easier to find a seat on the John Wilkes if you boarded there. I presume the train was serviced and turned at Coxton, and the stops there and then Pittston were ‘making a virtue of necessity’ for trains that had to run via Wilkes-Barre.
Interestingly, after the Laurel Line quit, the service to Scranton was via bus – Pennsylvania Greyhound Lines, not Martz Trailways – and it was only offered between Wilkes-Barre and Scranton, not Pittston…