Can somebody do me a favour and measure the actual length of an Atlas Customline Code 83 #8 switch?
Thanks,
Dave
Atlas claims it is 13-1/2 inches long. See page 62 of following link:
That was quick!
Thanks maxman.
Next questions - how much can an Atlas Code 83 Customline turnout be shortened, and what problems may shortening the turnout cause?
Thanks
Dave
It doesnt look very shortenable. Have you considered Peco code 83 #8s?
http://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Track-templates/c83/SL-8381%20&%20SL-8382.pdf
Why do you need to shorten it? The diverging route ends very shortly after the frog. Like ALL Atlas Custom Line turnouts, the straight route is the perfect length to build a yard ladder with 2" track centers without any cutting or filling.
Trying to start a curve or another turnout closer to the frog is likely a bad idea.
It is likely to cause derailments.
BUT, Custom Line turnouts can be curved slightly. By carefully removing the tie web in the area of the closure rails, the turnout can be made into a very gradual curved turnout.
Sheldon
The PECO is likely worse because the diverging route extends just as far as the straight route.
Sheldon
Dave, it might help if we know what you be thinkin’. What do you have in mind?
-Crandell
It is almost a full inch shorter to start off (.85" shorter to be exact).
The one or two ties on the points end can likely be removed (along with the rail), along with the 1st tie on the frog end on each route.
How much do you need to shorten the turnout.
Exactly, that’s why I asked why he wants to shorten it?
In fact, the PECO and the ATLAS are within 1/8" when measured from the frog point to the end of the diverging route,
Sorry, I should have given a more detailed explanation.
Here’s the reason for the question:
As some of you are aware, my plan has been chosen as the design that will be used for the new club layout. The problem is that I used Peco Code 100 turnouts to build the plan (in 3rd PlanIt). I managed to make everything fit nicely in our available space using the Code 100 turnouts.
Then I learned that the Peco Code 100 turnouts may not be the best choice because of the rather sharp frog angle (12 degrees regardless of turnout size). In particular, Byron (cuyama) warned me that there may be problems with longer equipment in crossovers because of the sharp angle. I choose to respect his advice.
By comparison, both the Peco Code 83 #8s and the Atlas Customline #8s have a frog angle of approx. 7.15 degrees and are therefore a much better choice for crossovers, and main line turnouts in general. The problem is that both the Peco and Atlas Code 83 #8 turnouts are considerably longer than than the Peco Code 100 Large turnout that I used in the original plan. The Peco Code 83 is 12 21/32" long and the Atlas is 13 1/2" long. The Peco Code 100 Large turnout is only 10 7/32". Given that things were a tight fit to begin with, trying to fit the longer turnouts into the original plan while maintaining a minimum 32" radius (with easements) has proven to be a challenge. I have been able to make the Peco Code 83 #8s work, but the longer Atlas #8s are not working. Hence the question - “can I shorten an Atlas Code 83 #8 turnout?” (to make it fit into the same space as a Peco Code83 #8). Sounds like that’s not likely possible.
The motive would be to try and save some money. I feel I have an obligation to the club to explore all possible options. We are looking at a total of 75 - 80 turnouts.
I would appreciate any suggestions regarding this issue.
Thanks,
Dave
What equipment are you planning to run that requires #8? Yes, things may look better with an 8, but sometimes you gotta compromise.
Hi maxman:
We made the commitment that any locomotive or rolling stock should be able to run without problems. We haven’t a clue if a member will show up with a 4-8-8-4 or the longest 6 axle diesel with a string of 89’ container cars. May never happen, but if someone wants to run that stuff we would hope that they have a good experience.
As I said I have been able to make the Peco Code 83s #8s work, and I have used #6s for sidings. I plan on using #5s for the yard ladders and #4s for the service facility.
To be honest, we might be beating a dead horse here. If the Peco Code 83 #8s will work and the Atlas #8s won’t, end of discussion (not trying to shut you down - just stating what appears to be a simple fact). The cost difference is not a deal breaker. I think we are looking at somewhere around $400 Cdn.
Dave
[quote user=“hon30critter”]
Sorry, I should have given a more detailed explanation.
Here’s the reason for the question:
As some of you are aware, my plan has been chosen as the design that will be used for the new club layout. The problem is that I used Peco Code 100 turnouts to build the plan (in 3rd PlanIt). I managed to make everything fit nicely in our available space using the Code 100 turnouts.
Then I learned that the Peco Code 100 turnouts may not be the best choice because of the rather sharp frog angle (12 degrees regardless of turnout size). In particular, Byron (cuyama) warned me that there may be problems with longer equipment in crossovers because of the sharp angle. I choose to respect his advice.
By comparison, both the Peco Code 83 #8s and the Atlas Customline #8s have a frog angle of approx. 7.15 degrees and are therefore a much better choice for crossovers, and main line turnouts in general. The problem is that both the Peco and Atlas Code 83 #8 turnouts are considerably longer than than the Peco Code 100 Large turnout that I used in the original plan. The Peco Code 83 is 12 21/32" long and the Atlas is 13 1/2" long. The Peco Code 100 Large turnout is only 10 7/32". Given that things were a tight fit to begin with, trying to fit the longer turnouts into the original plan while maintaining a minimum 32" radius (with easements) has proven to be a challenge. I have been able to make the Peco Code 83 #8s work, but the longer Atlas #8s are not working. Hence the question - “can I shorten an Atlas Code 83 #8 turnout?” (to make it fit into the same space as a Peco Code83 #8). Sounds like that’s not likely possible.
The motive would be to try and save some money. I feel I have an obligation to the club to explore all possible options. We are looking at a total of 75 - 80 turnouts.
I would appreciate any suggestions regarding this issue.
Thanks,
Dave
&nb
If it were me, I would not cut down the turnouts. I did that once with a pair of Atlas Mark IV turnouts to shorten the length of a crossover and it worked…but a risky move in terms of potential damage to expensive pieces of track work.
A better option is to select the Peco #8 over the Atlas #8 since the Peco is shorter.
Or, just install #6 turnouts which are shorter for either brand and handle most equipment quite readily.
Rich
The difference is, as Sheldon notes, pretty much insignificnt. The Peco is 12 21/32" long along the straight route and the Atlas is 13 1/2". Per #rd PlanIt which usually has the geometry correct. The diverging side of the Atlas is significantly shorter though - on the Peco the diverging side extends to the straight side, the Atlas stops short.
The closure and substitute radius for a #6 is probably beyond what you are using for curves - the closure radius is the tightest part of the turnout, and on a #6 that’s 43". #6 are fine for most any model, #8’s are probbaly best reserved for cosmetic locations, since they will indeed look good but they take up a lot of real estate. #8 closure radius is 67"!
–Randy
Maybe for one turnout, 27/32’', or about 7/8", difference. But that adds up once you start stringing a bunch of turnouts along the layout.
Rich
Which Peco code 100 turnout? I have a couple of the “large” radius turnouts and they appear to be fairly close to #6 turnouts I have. Perhaps Cuyuma can comment on the actual geometry. I like to stick with a #6 minimum and the large peco seem pretty close.
The Peco code 83 turnouts are quite pricey, so as nice as they are, that will add up a good deal over a large number. I’ve compared MBK’s price for Peco code 83 #6 at $26 and the Atlas code 83 at $14, so that is an extra $12 each. Thats $960 extra to go with Peco code 83 over the Atlas if you bought 80 turnouts ($12 each x 80 turnouts).
There is a middle ground with MicroEngineering #6 - MBK price is $19 IIRC - that is an option i am considering on with my next layout.
Edit: fixed price difference - dang calculator in Windows
I think you mean $960
The PECO code 100 still has a 12 degree frog, no mater its other geometry, that makes it a #5.
A #6 is 9.5 degrees…