I took a quick look through the fourms and being new to them I’m not sure if I was even looking for the right thing. I’ve got a 8’ by 3’ platform that is the main body of my layout. I am somewhat new to the whole train modeling scene and I have built my layout in two levels one is 8" lower then the other. My main track on my upper level runs along the back (farthest away from you) and I want the lower track to run on the front (closest to you) I am running a double main line. What I need to know because my attempt failed epicly is what the maximum grade I can go down is? Oh and I am useing N-scale . I am not against building onto the layout my plan is to hide what ever I have to do behind a mountan.
My second question is part of my layout is just going to be a grass field area what are some good ways to do this? I’ve added some rolling hills with drywall compound to add some “texture”
Also another probably important note is my layout is built on a 1" foam base over plywood.
First a question to help us get a better idea of your layout. Do you have two 3’x8’ sheets, one above the other or is one sheet split in two, with the front portion lower?
A 2 percent grade is about the steepest recommended for “normal” operations. To drop 8 inches at 2 percent would take 400 inches, then 400 inches back up, if I have figured it correctly.
For putting your grass down, first, choose an earth color paint. Paint an area of one to two square feet and sprinkle on some ground foam. Unless you are doing a manicured lawn, don’t sprinkle it on evenly. When the paint has dried put down some more ground foam, slightly different colors, different textures. Soak it with wet water or diluted alchol (can use full strength if you want), then soak with scenic cement made with diluted matte medium or diluted white glue. After that is dry, assess whether you want to add more color and texture. Doing only a small area at a time allows you be working with a wet surface. After you have sprinkled on your foam you can go to the next section, while the first is drying.
Mike - going down the grade is not hard, go up the grade is. Unless you have an old logging RR I would stay in the 2% or less range- ask me how I learned this.
Also look a static grass for you grassy area. 2mm is what you should looking for
thanks for the replies. The info on the grass is very helpful and any and all I can get on it is appreciated.
As for my layout for clairification, the two levels they are 8 feet long and 1½ feet wide with a 6.5 inch drop Should have meassured before I posted it. I was orginaly going to go with 8 then changed my ming to 6.5 so it totals 3’ wide.
I have been into another fourm as well about the N-scale helix help and got some good answers in there. I didn’t realize thats what I needed to use was a helix or that, that’s what it was called.
What I do is to apply three shades of ground cover (Woodland Scenics Turf) - - - light, medium, and dark green, one after another. Recently, I mixed the three shades in a bowl and sprinkled it all at once. That worked like a charm.
400 inches? that seems a little exsessive. I’m hopeing thats a typo.
I’ve run some test’s and I seem to be able to climb 2" over a 30" span on a straight stretch and according to my tests if I were to do it over a straight stretch it should take about 120" so I am estimating with the curve of a helix adding to my drag I should be safe at about an 1½" incline as for the total track length of my helix I don’t know that yet but I would estimate it to be at least 120" Does this seem reasonable?
Ok that equation makes more sense to me to actually see the formula. So doing some quick calculations in my head from knowing the diameter of my helix and knowing I have enough room to put 2½ turns into it I worked out just around 250 inches and using that equation that worked out to about a 2.5 % rise.
Hauling 9 or 10 cars at most and having the option of a helper engine if I need it I should be able to I think sucsefully build a useable helix to get me up and down. course down being the easier part[:D]
It’s not a typo. 1" rise in 100" is a 1% grade so to change 8" would be 800" at 1% or 400" at 2%. A grade of 2" in 30" is in excess of 6%. A loco may be able to do this but I doubt you will be able to pull many cars. Do you have traction tires? I guess they would help, but that is still very steep. Even if your loco can pull some cars up the grade you may have uncoupling problems at the top and bottom of your grade unless you have a good transition curve.
If you have room for a helix, that will help you change elevation with much less grade.
I guess thats what it has come down to is to build a helix which I have started working on I am just trying to get the mathmatics right to get it to work out the way I need it to.
Again I am getting some great advice on this. I had no idea when I started how to figure out the grade I honestly though it was just more or less a trail and error thing. But between this thread and another one I am taking part in about helixes for n scale I have got some really great tips and advice
For a helix there are 3 things you have to figure, the radius, the rise per turn and the grade.
The rise per turn has a minimum which is the height of the equipment plus the thickness of the roadbed. So if you are using 1/2 in plywood for the helix and you want 2 1/2 in clearance between turns then you will need 3’ of rise per turn. At 3" rise between turn a 8" rise is about 2.5 turns.
1 turn is 3" of rise. At a 2% grade that = 150" of run.
150"/3.14 (pi) = 47" diameter. = about 24" radius.
If you use 1/4" plywood and have only 2’ clearance, that’s 2.25" per turn. At 2% grade that = 113" of run.
If it is like this you are building lots of grades without getting much from it. It seems to me you think it would be nice to have two levels, it might be nice to have them 6,5" apart; but what do you want to achieve? Beside you mentioning some scenery I have no clue.
Your math is right, with 2,5 " clearance and and a 15" min radius for your curves the resulting grade will be 2,7 %. Add 20/15 = 1,3 extra for the curves and the result will be a grade that would be 4% in comparison when build on a straight. According to literature short trains or extra engines are required. You are prepared to do both so no problems will arise in this area.
Due to much needed vertical transitions the usable length for stations is very short. Unless you are up to building very steep mountains the scenery on the lower level will be problematic.
The 2% advise from other posters is wise, though they should have added a remark. Generally speaking it makes a hell of a difference what you are up too. Short or long grades, short or long trains, how sharp are your curves, adding extra power and engines that perform quite differently.
BTW most derailments occur going downwards, it is definitely not the easy way.
LOL I’m worried about the concept of my plan to but it will be fun anyway I think. And I have already had a down hill derailment which did not end well hence the reason for this thread. It’s all a learning curve for me though. And I have to say down was defantly easier…It may have not been the right way down but it was defantly down…all the way to the floor luckely the loco stayed on the track and it was just some cars that derailed.
I am going to try and attach a plan with this post to better demonstraight my layout
Just an quick update, I have sucsesfully built a working helix. I want to thank everyone for all the advice on this. My trains run up and down with no issues at all. It took me about 4 hours but was defantly well worth it
Again thanks to all for the input on this.
My grassy area is coming along as well useing the paint and then putting “turf” on top while it is still wet worked awsome and mixing the differnt colors together made a really nice mix.
