Our club is currently working with the group that’s redeveloping the railroad station that we’re located in and one of the items on the “must fix” list is to provide an alternate access route to our layout. Currently, the majority of the layout is only accessible via a duck/crawl under.
Since the building is being remodeled on the interior, all elements must now meet new code requirements which exclude the use of a duck/crawl under as the primary access method for the layout. We’ve designed several different track plans which include some form of lift out or swing gate bridge which will meet the new code requirements.
I’ve read many of the other threads on these topics but I didn’t see any specific comments about them in a club/public building setting.
Here’s our question… Which will survive longer - a lift out or swing gate? The final solution will need to be easy to operate for our members and must provide nearly 100% operational reliability since it is going to be part of the layout that will be functional without member intervention (coin operated display) and have the capability of being enclosed so that the trains/scenery can’t be disturbed/damaged.
We’d welcome your thoughts. Pictures are also appreciated so we can see the implementation that others have done.
It would be more easily answered if you post a diagram.
I use a swing gate. It is supported by a ledge on both ends when closed. Either solution should have a dead section at each end when the gate is open unless you are planning to simulate the ravine scene from Back To The Future III. Not everyone has room for a swing gate. Indexing when closed is absolutely essential.
Will all viewers of the layout have to pass through this gate? In other words is it like the door into the room?
Are there going to be members present at all times of operation, even though they may not be directly involved in the gates operation?
Any type of gate would require knowing how to release and reset it. Also, you would have to have some sort of safety device to keep it closed when trains are crossing the gate. (This might not do well with the code restrictions.)
A lift out would require knowing where to put it when out.
A swing up could have counter weights to help, but would need some sort of lock to keep it up if it is being concidered an ememgency exit.
A swinging gate used as an emergency exit would have to swing out toward the exit, like outside doors on stores have to swing out of the building.
It almost sounds to me like you should consider a plan where folks can get around the layout without having to go through a gate. Even simple gate operations need some degree of knowledge and an understanding not to open the gate when a train is passing. Unsupervised operation of such a gate, sounds to me like asking for a disaster.
I have nothing against gates, as I have seen some in operation that work well. I will have to use one if I expand my current or build my dream. Problem I see is inexperienced folks trying to operate one, unsupervised.
Don’t mean to dash your hopes, but would hate to see a lot of work go into something that will cause problems, if it can possibly be avoided.
The lift out/swing gate will be down & locked in that position unless there is a member who is actually entering/exiting the layout area.
Redesigning the layout to exclude the lift out/swing gate - unfortunately if we want to have access to the layout, we need to include access to the back area of the layout. When it was originally designed, it was designed with a duck-under and that no longer meets code.
Thanks to all and any additional comments would be welcomed.
Good, only to be used by members when needed. Just cut out the area of your current duck under and replace with your gate.
I’d recommend a swing up. They don’t get in the way when open (swing in or out) and the scenery isn’t likely to get knocked off if you get to close walking through (tip down). The one I plan to use as a model for mine uses two simple hinges on top, covered by a piece of old carpet that looks like a farm field. Could use a grass mat or anything else flexible. The other end comes down into tapered notches to align the track securely. Can use alignment pins or whatever suits the club. This is on a clubs portable layout, so it gets more abuse than one that would be on a perminant layout.
Don’t forget to have a section of track both sides of the opening go electrically dead whenever the gate is open to keep trains from taking a dive.
You might consider a vertical lift - sort of similar to a lift bridge. Frame the lift section like a narrow table, with legs that reach the floor and block the tracks when the lift is fully raised. Rig a guide for the legs, which should keep the lift stable when raised to 68 inches clearance (the height of a standard door.) A little ingenuity could counterbalance the lift - which then would have to be locked down and would raise itself if the locks were released.
BEFORE you build this, or any other, design, check with the Code authorities yourselves. There may be other hoops to jump through. On the other hand, there might be a very simple design in their files that would meet your, and their, requirements. It’s far better to ask first than to learn the hard way that you didn’t have an acceptable answer.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - sans moving roadbed access)
I agree w/ Chuck that a vertical lift would work out better especially in a club setting. Our club http://www.ssmrc.org/ has built a lift like this for entrance to a new yard pit. I is a motorized drive utilizing heavy duty drawer full extension slides.
I seen my first lift-up at a club layout and it worked so flawless, quick and expanded my layout from a shelf layout to run around the room. I had two doors to deal with and wanted something bullet proof and that anyone can operate.
It henge’s up using a standard door hinge ( cheap and bullet proof if someone opens a door and bangs it ) and experimented with several latches for the drop down side (a week point ) and a cheap cupboard door latch works great. . The swing up raises and gos over center and its weight being fully over center holds it up, by gravity.
Below is the first swing up I built, Its overbuilt on account of people opening the door and slamming it, is service now for several years and no failure yet, , my five year old grandson has no problems using it or locking it. Look closely at the angles and 45 degree back cuts, thats essential to work properly. I will find the other ends picture and post later, hope this helps
Note hinge is back set, so when in up position it is its own counterweight.
This is the latch side and note its extremely sturdy, note the side have guides to align it if somebody drops it (don’t ask LOL) also has height adjustment screws to align track height, Three things to remember, keep it simple and don’t over engineer it, easy to use and bullet proof. These pics are over seven years old and still works great. I now have two straight swing ups one door,and two that have 90 degee turns, mulitiple turnouts and 8 tracks and getting ready to add a turntable on it.
Maybe I’m just getting more cautious in my old age, but I see a safety issue here. I notice that the door opens in. In an emergency where someone on the outside needs to get in fast, that lift gate is going to be an impediment.
I agree that the 2 swingups can act as a barricade to opening the door. Even if reversing the swing to outward would require relocation of the light switch and even if opened door is messing w/ traffic flow. you still should consider doing so. As a carpenter this is a simple task for me, however, it wouldn’t take that much to pull the door to flip it to outswing. Trickyest part is to leave the inside casing as you need to reinstall the jamb/ reveal according to existing inside trim. A trick to doing this is to set a few small finish nails @ the reveal paint line on the jamb to align the jamb for proper installed position. Set the hindge side first, the align door/ jamb w/ shims to nail. If the now outswing will block the light sw, just flip the box to the interior of the room and patch the hole.
Thanks to all for the ideas. In our current proposal, the door will be separate from the swing gate/lift bridge so that we don’t have a similar issue with the door being blocked by the gate/bridge. This whole thread has been educational and we will definitely post a follow up if (when) the final design is approved by the station renovation team.
Thanks,
Chris & the membership of the Platte Valley & Western Model Railroad Club
That is a good point to consider and Yes it would have been nice to change the jamb on the door, however it is to an outside area and due to local codes and the design of the stucco it was prohibitive.
However the other interior room door’s swing was changed as you mentioned, being an inside door was an easy fix.
As you said Professional skills, or in my case home owner remodeling skills is a great benefit to building a swing up, being a club project he will undoubtedly with his skills and the other club members skills and resources to utilize. A great reason to join a club, but then somtimes LOL, things get a touch over engineeeeered ( just kidding guys, dont flame me LOL)
In a club environment IMPO it is paramount to have a pressure switch to kill at least the three feet or so, before the opening when it is in the up position, perhaps further if they use a lot of stopping momentum set in their decoder’s, plus the unknown factor of various momentum’s of the guest locomotives to consider…
In my case I elected to not put any slowing momentum in mine, as I had the exciting experience of turning on my DCC system and every engine on my layout went berserk LOL. Being my swing ups are at both ends of the upper and lower yards and I now like an extremely fast shutdown. I haven’t had a problem since correcting the decoder’s, but due to occasional guess locomotives, am very cautious at start-up.
I also have an album over at Trainlife with more pics of the four swing ups and other projects
