River Line: interurban, but not classic. Light Rail, but not normal light rail
South Shore: interurban, but no longer classic (if ever) Commuter and freight rail, but not normal, just distinctive
uusual characteristics can make railfanning more interesting
daveklepper is right about South Shore. The fact that it was built to steam railroad standards right from the start disqualifies it as a classic interurban. While it retains some interurban characteristics even now, it evolved into more of an electric railroad than an interurban beginning with Insull’s purchase in 1925.
The Insull-era MU cars, especially the lengthened ones, would not have looked too out of place on the Reading or Lackawanna suburban lines. They certainly fit in rather nicely on the IC between 115th Street and Randolph Street.
The Jewett (#801) that survived is in the Electric City Trolley Museum in Scranton PA . Car 812 (converted from LVT-built private car #999) was scrapped sometime in 1951-52 along with all other Liberty Bell cars. Last run of the Bell line is covered in issue #283 (SEP-OCT 2006) of the modeler’s magazine “Trolley Talk”, pgs 12&13. Too many happenings to detail here. I have seen another detailed account but don’t remember it now. Sorry. Old brain now like a sieve, losing content.
Dave, I forgot to add that there were no LVT freight trailers - all were powered. And I mistakenly said that all Liberty Bell cars were scrapped - - this is incorrect since parlor car #1030 (ex-IRR #55) went to Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine where it resides to this date. One of the founders of the Rockhill Trolley Museum in Rockhill Furnace PA (adjacent to East Broad Top narrow gauge RR Orbisonia station) owned a furniture factory in Allentown, and he built chairs and sofas to restore that car to its original parlor car configuration (LVT had put conventional coach seats in it in the late 1940s - - the furniture then probably went to decorate LVT offices). Seashore sometimes employs its elegance for their special events.
Don’t need to cover the details of the trip itself, but the circumstances that led you to ride it and the aftermath.
A recent NewsWire stort told of Seattle getting the funds to continue constructing light rail to the south on the Seattle-SeaTac Airport line. The line is to eventually reach Tacoma, which will make it an “interurban”. The line also has some street running.
Despite its name, the “Interurban Electric Railway Company” in the San Francisco Bay area was definitely not an interurban, “classic” or otherwise. For its entire (and short) existence as an operating railroad (1934-1941), it was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Southern Pacific. Prior to 1934, it wasn’t even a separate company - it was simply an electrified part of the larger SP system. The electric lines had been constructed (or converted from steam operation) by SP in the early 1900’s as part of SP’s own system and were operated as such (some segments of it were actually parts of the Central Pacific’s original rail line to Oakland). The “Interurban Electric Railway” corporation was only created in 1934 as part of the fairly complex financial and operational arrangements for operation over the Bay Bridge (which began in 1939 and, for IER, ended in 1941). To my knowlege, IER was simply an operating entity. It didn’t even own the rail lines it used - they remained the property of SP or Central Pacific.
As Dave mentions, SN reported to the ICC as a regular freight railroad. In fact, at the time of its discontinuance of passenger service (1941), it was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Western Pacific Ry, which had acquired its component parts in 1922 (the “old” Sacramento Northern from Sacramento to Chico) and 1927 (the San Francisco-Sacramento Railroad, formerly the Oakland, Antioch and Eastern) The two were merged into the “new” Sacramento Northern in 1928. WP’s interest in these properties was primarily in their value as freight feeder lines, and they continued in this role after the passenger discontinuance. Some of SN still exists today in freight service, but not much. I’m not sure of this, but I believe that SN, as a company, remained in existence until merged out as part of the UP-MP-WP merger in the early 1980’s.
The Key
Well, sort of. The entire route is urban, but it will connect two distinct city centers.
NJT Riverline- Could U please tell me bus service after the cutoff time? to Trenton to Camden?
There are light rail lines that are interurban lines, already, but not of course classic interurban lines. The line from St. Louis to Bellville and beyond is certainly one. San Diego - San Ysirdro, coming up Norfolk - Virginia Beach, and possibly some of the Denver and Dallas lines. The fact that there are suburban houses and paved streets between downtowns doesn’t remove the interurban classification, just is one more item that removes them from the classic catagory.
Sacramento Northern is quite similar to Illinois Terminal. Both started out as interurbans but were eventually bought out by steam railroads for their freight traffic. Both wound up as dieselized freight operations and I believe that both gave up much of their interurban trackage in favor of trackage rights on the parallel steam railroads.
Not sure what you mean. I was a teenage fan and got a phone call around suppertime on September 6th 1951 from Gerhard Salomon, secretary of the Lehigh Valley Chapter of NRHS, that the stated evening would be the last run (the PA PUC that afternoon had given LVT permission for “temporary” abandonment, and LVT wasted no time). Gerhard was friends with Fred Enters, the motorman who’d taught us both to operate during late-night local runs out in the country (Lanark, Coopersburg). Enters was scheduled to be operator of the 11PM Limited to Norristown, and passed the word to Gerhard re the last run. So the few fans who’d gotten the word got on at LVT’s Allentown Depot on S. 8th St just before 11PM. We got to Norristown about 1AM, turned around in the Rink siding loop, repositioned to the station, and left for the final return. The run would normally have terminated at Souderton but by that time all cars at that barn had been taken to Allentown. So we continued northbound, arriving at LVT’s Fairview carbarn in Allentown about 3AM.
The next day LVT had crews tearing up the track at 3 locations. McKelvey’s book has a picture of one such operation that I witnessed very near my house when I returned from HS the next day. LVT thus was going to make very sure that there would be no return from the “temporary” abandonment.
The only Liberty Bell Limited car that was saved from scrap was #1030, as stated earlier. The Wikipedia article on Lehigh Valley Transit and the article on Albertus Meyers Bridge have more info re the company and the interurban line.
P.S., Dave: Just noticed that the Trolley Talk articles on the Liberty Bell last run continue onto another page, so it’s Issue 283, SEP-OCT 2006, pgs.12-14.
you probably know that two Crandic cars were saved, one ex-C&LE, like all but 1030 of the Liberty Bells, at Branford, painted for C&LE, and the other ex-Indiana car at Union, restored as an Indiana car.
Actually, four Crandic ex-C&LE cars were saved: #111 at Western Railway Museum in California (www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eX46F6-M08), #116 at Shore Line Trolley Museum in East Haven Connecticutt, #118 at Seashore Trolley Museum in Kennebunkport Maine, and #119 (restored to C&LE livery, but now tarped) in Ohio Railway Museum just outside Columbus. I’ve seen all of these but #111, and that vicariously via the link. The Crandic ex-IRR car #65 (http://cerablog.com/2013/03/26/a-tale-of-two-high-speeds/) is the one you’re referring to in Union Illinois, restored to IRR livery (have seen it only briefly once) and including the MU couplers. I have a note that #110 and/or #117 may be at Electric City Trolley Museum in Scranton Pennsylvania, though my note also says “not displayed”. so I don’t know the full story there. Never saw anything such on the few times I was up there.
The 111 at Rio Vista is a very fast runner. When the car first arrived as a safety measure the field taps were cut out. Many years ago I ran the car there (pre restoration) . At the time part of the roof was missing. The line was it had a Rio Vista dome! The car could accelerate very quickly and at the time it was the fastest car on the property.(don’t ask) We can thank Ken Frye for the car and its eventual transfer to the museum. Originally Mr Frye wanted to set up a restaurant using the car to ferry diners from a parking lot to the restaurant. What was interesting was Mr Frye’s name was written in chalk on the side of the car next to the door and at various times his military rank as he progressed from 1st Lt to Capt to Major to Lt Col (I think) . Thx IGN
back to Sacramento Northern. Although regular interurban passenger service was discontiniued in early 1941, local streetcar service in Sacramento continued until sold to National City Lines in 1944. NCL also bought Pacific Gas and Electric’s streetcar lines, and Central California Traction’s one line. NCL operated the conbination as one system, including combining the SN and CCT lines into one. And rapidly converted everything to bus after WWII. Marysville-Uba City local service lasted until the end of 1945 or early 1946. Chico local service was actually extended north to the Air Force Base during WWII, and was the last five cent streetcar line in North America when discontinued in 1948 or 1949, with Birneys. For overhall the Chico and Marysville-Uba City local cars had to be equipped with temporary 3rd rail shoes, the only instance I know of where Birneys had such.
Dave: Here’s more I just found on the Liberty Bell Limited last run:
http://articles.mcall.com/1986-09-07/news/2535450_1_trolley-buffs-liberty-bell-s-8th-clanging-bells
Gives more detail on how some fans thought an early evening trip would be the last run.
One thing I didn’t include in my narrative here was that on the return trip the semaphore encountered at Lehigh Siding (2nd last northbound signal before Allentown) was horizontal and the light was out, thus not red as it should have been for that position, so we stopped, thus losing the momentum that would have been helpful for climbing South Mountain. Fred Enters had to call the dispatcher and learned that the signal power had been turned off prematurely, so got verbal clearance (or maybe had to write a train order, but I doubt it under the circumstances) to come in for the final entrance to Allentown, near 3AM on Friday September 7th 1951.
Dave: In this clip I found today,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlr6Gwii4rc
around the one-minute mark, the Liberty Bell Line track, about 100 yards from my house in South Allentown, is being torn up on Friday September 7th, 1951.
I witnessed this very scene after coming home from high school in the afternoon (by bus, since I had ridden the local trolley home the day before) so must have been present but out of view. Hadn’t realized before that there was film of it, so don’t know who the photgrapher was. A sad scene then, and now a poignant memory, over 63 years later.
South Shore pays into railroad retirement and is condisdered a Class 2 by the Railroad Retirement Board. SEPTA Norristown Line aka Norristown High Speed Line AKA Liberty Line is covered by Agalamated Transit Union and thus only eligible for Pension and Social Security. I guess it would have to be based on what the Federal Railroad Retirement Board considers a Bona-Fide railroad. Denver may regreat its Fast-Tracks Commuter Rail program for this very reason of having higher labor costs for what could have been a Subway Line to the Airport.