I’m an architecture student at Baker College in Flint, MI. For my Design II class which is Architectural Programming, And for the site my teacher has suggested that we somehow incorporate Light Rail, maybe even Amtrak, and would like some input.
(And incase your wondering I got dibs on station)
Here’s some info incase your not familiar with the Flint area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint,_Michigan
Below is a Google earth screen shot of the site. The site is approx. 2500 FT x 2500 Ft, and after doing some conversions, came up with HO layout size of 28’ x 28’.
The site is currently vacant, with the N/S CN line I believe cutting the site in half. the Flint Amtrak station to the south on Dort Hwy/ M-54
I’m confused. Not being an architecture student myself, and never having majored in it, I don’t understand what you’re supposed to be doing or what you’re asking for. The phrasing of your question indicates that your PROFESSOR wants some input.
What exactly is your “mission”? Rehabilitate the area, come up with a business plan, add light rail service, attract industry, spur economic growth, improve habitability?
And what is your “deliverable?” The class title suggests that maybe it’s a CAD drawing? Or a scale model, perhaps?
Really, we need a lot more information before we can help.
Yea, after reading it myself I thought I should of been more clear. My professor is actually on the planning commission for the City of Flint, and this site is in his area. What is going on in the class is that each student, there’s about 10 of us, is going to take a part of the site and develop it, after we discuss on what we want do with the site as whole. My professor was really pushing the light rail idea.
Right now, the only major transportation in the city of Flint is the MTA buses, other than that its car or walk. Adding light rail would be a economic boost to the area. Within proly a 20-mile or so radius of the site you have 4 colleges, - Baker, Kettering (GMI), UM Flint, and Mott Community College, a growing regional airport - Bishop International, plus 3 rail lines in the city. The Amtrak line runs E-W, and there has been discussion of opening N-S passenger rail.
They’re will be drawing involved, and maybe a model if theres time. (the quater lasts only 10 weeks)
Anyway,
what I would like is anyone had any information on why Amtrak can’t connect N-S, and if anyone would like to share there ideas on what to do with the site. One of mine was that it could be used as depot/terminal for the light rail system.
Understanding the transportation needs of the community is probably the first step. You’ve started the process by locating the colleges and airports. You also need to understand where the “bedroom communities” are, and how to get those people into the commercial district.
Ideally, the system should have a station where the light rail passengers can board the Amtrak trains, without slogging through snow or rain. This is a good starting point, as the Amtrak line is already in place. If this is in the commercial district, so much the better, as it provides a natural hub for the light rail system.
Consider the need for parking at the outer points of the light rail system. (I’m already thinking hub-and spoke, here, possibly showing my bias towards the Boston MBTA arrangement.) One problem with getting people to use trains instead of cars is the insistence of government officials to treat these parking lots as cash cows, which adds significantly to the cost of using the system, and thus discourages its use. If I were to model one of these lots, I’d put up a sign that says, “Free Parking for Train Passengers.”
Finally, consider going a step beyond light rail. Look up PRT, Personal Rapid Transit, if you’re not familiar with it. This is a light-rail system which uses small 4 to 6 passenger cars. They are computer controlled, and operate as point-to-point units from the point of view of the passengers.
Actually that’s something we talked about during class, and we have identified the surronding neighborhoods. The roads that boarder the site are all major roads, but there is a lack of commercial development in the local area, and jobs. One of the downsides is that the site is not centrally located in the city itself.
That’s one of the advantages to this site is the nearby Amtrak station, and there is possiablty for even commuter rail to, say running the North-South direction, which could connect Flint in the North/South direction with cities such as Ann Arbor, Detroit, etc. Because All Amtrak in Michigan runs in the E-W direction.
One thing I have just thought of is that with the commuter rail idea, there is a possiablty of running along side the existing trackage which runs by the airport and connect the airport that way, then have light rail running down say Robert T. Longway, making the connection to the downtown area, which is on the rebound with several new developments, including student housing (I’ll actually be living there as of this Sunday)
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Consider the need for parking at the outer points of the light rail system. (I’m already thinking hub-and spoke, here, possibly showing my bias towards the Boston MBTA a
Incorporate light rail. Hmm. Your site is about 0.5 miles square, making the walk from the center to the farthest corner about 0.717 miles. That makes it a longish walk, particularly in winter. You could have light rail stops every 1/4 mile or so without overdoing it.
If your light rail is street running, the stops can be any where, all you need is a sign, passengers board and disembark right in the street. Stops can be added if traffic justifies them by just putting up a sign “Trolley Stop” and you are done with it. All cities had street running trolleys as late as 1960. Unfortunately street running trolleys are not popular, motorists think thay block traffic, and you don’t see them much anymore. There would be opposition to a new design featuring street running.
If the light rail runs on a private right of way, then the stops are harder to move. The stops need access from the streets and a way for the passengers to get to both tracks without crossing the track on foot at grade. That means over or underpasses. And you really ought to provide over or underpasses for the streets, more expense.
Assume you have read Jane Jacobs “Life and Death of Great American Cities” and you are going to do something of which she would approve. That means you have mixed together residential, retail, entertainment, office space, and manufacturing. Jacob’s argument was that a mixed area would give the office workers somewhere to go for lunch and do some shopping, and the entertainment (bars and restaurants) would generate traffic after 5 o’clock to keep the streets safe, and the residents could walk to work.
In this case you ought to have a shopping mall, and the mall ought to have a light rail stop. You ought to have a few office buildings, a fw public buildings, and a lot of apartment houses and row houses. The light rail stops oug
I guess that’s another parameter of your study that we need to understand. Is this to be an idealized “Flint of the Future” plan, or is it a practical study which is aware of the realities of the current state of finances for urban areas like Flint, and depressed states like Michigan?
A few years back, I was talking with a real estate agent from the suburbs of Boston. I was asking about how property values were holding up in the towns “between the beltways” of I-95 and I-495. She mentioned that the town of Reading was doing very well, for an interesting reason. Commuter rail, and easy access to a direct link to downtown Boston, is a very big plus for homebuyers. So, as part of a light rail study, the idea that rail service can increase property values and therefore tax revenues is something which may be worth noting.
Street running. I just remembered that Tacoma Washington has a brand new street running trolley serving the down town museum and theater district, so maybe you can do a new street running trolley in Flint.
All good ideas thank you all very much in helping with this. As the only one in the class that is in anyway familiar with rail, everyone looks to me thinking I know everything.
Anyway, one of the advantages in the area is that there are several rights-of-way that have been torn up and are now sitting unused. Unfortunately with site being contaminated, to do a mixed used with residential units would not be as cost effective due to the fact of the large vacancy’s in the surrounding neighborhood, and the environmental clean up that would be necessary at the site for residential purposes.
As for the actual plan, it does sound like it our ideas could be used in the development of a new Master Plan for the city, which was last done in the1960s, and our ideas would have merit since as i stated before, my teachers on the Planning Commission board for the city.
Having street running was what I had in mind, and perhaps having the cars self-powered in some way, eliminating the need for overhead or 3rd rail. For the commuter line that interchange with the Amtrak station, an idea I had was to have that powered by 3rd rail. I am pretty positive that the original station has long since been demolished and any tracks to it built over.
Street running has its advantages, but also problems. First is the safety factor, which limits the speed of the units to a crawl to avoid accidents. Also, by mixing the trains with cars, you end up tying up trains in traffic jams. One of the biggest selling points of trains is that they move people quickly even when traffic is at a standstill, so you don’t want to impose gridlock on your modern rail system.
I would not support anything but overhead electric power. It’s safe, and there is no exhaust to worry about. While I can’t quote numbers, I would suspect that the initial cost of the overhead wiring will be smaller than the purchase and maintenance of a fleet of self-powered cars. For the heavy-rail commuter line, the third rail is the way to go.
I have included a Google Earth screen shot of the area with the points of interest marked such as the colleges, as well as downtown and the airport. The area is about 6 miles in a straight line from the site.
Light rail is not something you put on a specific site. It has to be part of a regional transportation system. It also has to serve a need for fairly heavy volume over medium distances.
You have to have a demand that exists over an extended or multiple times during the day for the majority of the week. Building a light rail line to meet Amtrak would be a huge waste of money. Connecting a suburban shopping mall to a college to the down town area might be feasible. Connecting the colleges won’t do much. How many days a week do you visit the other colleges?
You have to find common traffic patterns between different groups and put the light rail where the most traffic overlaps. Find the routes that have the worst highway routes or the most congestion AND the highest volume.
Colleges to the airport, downtown to the airport, colleges to malls, downtown to park and rides.
Then once you have figured out the regional needs, the site might accidentally end up on one of the light rail routes.
I see a system that looks like a backwards J laying on its side. Start at the airport, run past Baker, then north through downtown getting as close to UM Flint as you can then SW to Kettering.
Unless there is a large amount of suburban development near the site, I see no reason to connect it to light rail. If you just gotta connect it, run a spur from downtown out to the site, pave over whatever your allotted space is and make it a park and ride. If there is a huge amount of development or large shopping malls out past the site, then use it for a shop facility and put a small park and ride there.
First off, I applaud your Prof for using th eclass to address real “problems”, and not just pulling concepts out of his FRED.
Dave’s mostly got it right, but FLint sits on the 79mph Wolverine trackage, right? The next big regioanl Amtrak behind the NEC and Cali? that one actually might be a worthwhile connection, as I do know a lot of College peeps who go to CHI.
But yes, interconnecting college to college is not a needed thing. It might prove easier however to go that ropute, rather than building a bunch of splinter lines to converge at one point.
You mentioned Portland, while you’re looking out there, find the Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation’s new lands. Not only are they tossing in thier museum (4449, SPS 700, etc.) there, but there’s already one s
