I am refurbishing a Lionel 1668 and it changes direction nicely with the switch on top of the locomotive, but it doesn’t change direction when you try it using the direction switch on the transformer? Anyone seen this? This same transformer works well with postwar Lionel’s that I have.
This would be best asked on the “Classic Toy Trains” section. It’s easy to get confused between the “Classic Trains” and “Classic Toy Trains”.
Based on my memory of Lionel O-Gauge, I would guess the problem would be the reversing mechanism in the locomotive.
Thanks. I moved the post to that group.
I thought all 1668s had three position E unit, and that the lever was just the lockout.
I suspect it might be an E-unit issue, after all these years it could be a bit sticky.
Before going too far with it I’d give the E-unit a spray with electrical contact cleaner, most well-stocked hardware stores should have it in their electrical sections.
Try a couple of light sprays and give it plenty of time to dry out. Most E-unit problems I’ve had I’ve managed to fix with contact cleaner.
Just to clarify though, do you have a 1668 or a 1668E? If the locomotive’s a 1668 it won’t have the automatic reversing unit (E-unit) but MAY have a manual reversing switch. Only the 1668E’s have the E-unit. Never having handled a Pre-War 1668 I’m just guessing on a manual switch but I can say that not every Pre-War Lionel locomotive’s going to have an E-unit, only the ones with an “E” on the number.
Welcome to the forum, EdwardM!
I didn’t know that some 1668s were pre “E”, but I did know some prewar locos were manual reverse. That would explain the engines behavior.
Right, if there’s no “E” with the number there’s no E-unit.
At the last York show I was speaking with an exhibitor who was familiar with Pre-Wars and he told me automatic reverses weren’t favored with trains that used latch couplers as running those types of trains in reverse would foul the couplers and cause derailments. With box couplers though it wasn’t an issue.
Thanks for the responses. I believe that it is a 1668 not E. Unless the logos on the sides were changed. I am new to old trains but jumping in and trying to learn. It has what looks like an e-unit. I have serviced e-units on a few other locomotives. On this one I needed to replace the drum which had broke in two. It looks like the two set of teeth are in place and it does change direction nicely when flipping the switch on the e unit manually. Since my last post, it seems that it works very intermittently with the direction switch on the transformer. I originally thought that it didn’t work at all with the transformer switch, but trying it repeatedly, it works sometimes. I am still confused about what would cause the intermittent behavior.
Great diagnostic work! The on-off working could just be the parts of the broken drum lining up by chance. It happened to me with a Post-War E-unit with a worn-out drum.
Welcome aboard EdwardM! They’re right, its manual reverse. But in the long run you’ll likely run it 10 to 1 in forward versus reverse.
Edward, glad to see you are getting responses to your question. It’s been about 6 decades since I’ve any hands on experience with running Lionel three rail trains.
Hello Edward,
The short answer is that’s just the way it is. I have some engines that never stick, and a few that always stick. Moving the lever causes just enough vibration to get the E unit to drop. Some engines need a tap on the top of the boiler to get it to cycle. On American Flyer, you would tap on the tender.
If you’re lucky, it may loosen up with use.
Paul
Thank you all for the info. I appreciate it!
Please review the E-Unit function… it appears to be working properly but with some operator error on your part:
It sounds like there may be a couple of unrelated things going on here and I’m not sure that there’s actually a “problem.”
First of all, does the engine have a reversing unit(E unit)? I’m guessing no based on the behavior described here-on engines without a reversing unit, generally the easily accessible switch is used to change direction. If you could, for example, move the switch while the locomotive was in motion and have it change directions, it does not sound like the locomotive has an E-unit(reversing unit).
The “Direction” button/switch on the transformer takes the track power to zero, which is what’s needed to activate the reversing unit(on most transformers, turning the handle all the way down does the same thing). If the locomotive doesn’t have an E unit, the direction button does nothing. It also will only change the direction if the track power is on.
For Lionel mechanical e-units, there is a switch to turn the E-unit on and off that is usually located somewhere in the top of the locomotive. Mechanical E-units have a solenoid, pawl, drum, and contact fingers, all of which work together to make the magic happen. When power is applied to them, the solenoid pulls the pawl upward, rotating the drum and connecting the motor differently. Incidentally, the E unit is responsible for the “buzz” that you can hear(usually only audible in neutral). The switch shuts off the solenoid, so the E-unit remains wherever it was(forward, neutral, reverse) before the switch was flipped. Flipping this switch to the “off” position when the locomotive is moving won’t cause any change in direction, although it will cause a change if switching to the “on” position with power applied.
As a side note, too, since someone mentioned American Flyer-American Flyer reverse units were a sort of complicated and convoluted design mostly intended to get around Lionel’s patents. They are larger than their Lionel counterpart, which is why a lot of them are in the tender(I can’t think of an example of a postwar Lionel that has it there). Also, they are MUCH more likely to stick in one position than Lionel units as they use a “flapping” metal plate pulled against an electromagnet to turn the drum. Last thing too-the switch on an American Flyer e-unit physically locks the mechanism. If you flip the switch, an AF unit will “advance”(i.e. if it was going forward, you shut off power, then flip the switch it will be in neutral when you turn the power back on). You can run an AF unit through all the positions just by moving the switch back and forth with the power off. I mention all this to say that even though they get the same end result, they are different enough that it’s really not even worth discussing them in relationshop to troubleshooting Lionel units.
Me neither. The only odd location of E-units on Lionels I can think of are the ones on diesels where the lever is on the bottom of the locomotive. Makes it a pain to adjust.
There were those, and then you had the early(like 1946, maybe part of '47) Turbines and I think also Berkshires where you had the plug board in the cab.
Of course on those the unit itself is still in the same spot as it stayed…well forever…but later ones stuck the lever up through the body shell.
A lot of American Flyer steamers, or at least the popular Atlantics, Pacifics, Northerns, etc had the reverse unit itself in the tender and a 4-wire tether/plug to connect it to the locomotive. Actually on some of the really early ones the smoke unit was in the tender and the reverse unit in the locomotive(you still had a 2 wire tether since the power pick-up was there, plus the smoke hose) but the smoke unit in engine+motor didn’t leave room for the reverse unit.