I bought a 3011 switch today at a swap meet. Right hand. I have another pair of these. I have not yet put them into my layout. Both of the RH switches appear to have a tolerance problem in that the switch points do not seem to get tight against the outside rail and leave a gap that a wheel flange could pick. Anyone else have this problem? The LH switch appears OK. When the switch is in the straight through position, the point is tight against the curved rail, but in the position to have the train take the curved route, there is a large gap between the point and the straight rail. Bruce Baker
Bruce,
What is a 3011 switch? Is it a 6-23011 part number, if so there is what is called the round circlaur file, or use it for target practice, to put this into permanently!![2c]
Lee F.
Yes, the part number is 6-23011 for the RH switch. When I got the pair of switches (RH & LH), they were in the original boxes, and looked to be in pretty good shape. Upon closer examination, I discovered that the RH switch had been somewhat butchered. Someone had broken the plastic clips that held the fixed straight rail, apparently in an attempt to make the switch work properly. I drilled and tapped the rail for a 4-40 screw and fastened it back down, moving it slightly inboard so that the points would contact the rail. Then I added several layers of shrink tubing to the guard rail on the other side of the switch. It appeared that these mods would make the switch operate properly. Without the mods, there was no chance that the switch would work as the points did not touch the straight rail, and it was clear that the first engine that tried to go through the switch would pick the points. Tonight I tried the two RH switches. The one with the screw holding the rail worked and the other one didn’t. I am going to proceed to modified the one that doesn’t work unless someone can tell me of a part from Lionel that fixes the problem. I can’t believe that Lionel sold these switches in this condition. Bruce Baker
Bruce, I’m not sure if you’ve heard but these switches are infamous. Possibly one of the worst things Lionel has ever made. They are unbelievably problematic. Search the forums for info if you’d like but I would toss them. Sorry, Mike S.
To help you better understand what I went through with these switches, well here it is; 1) they don’t work with Williams trains, the switch throw goes bonkers! when a Williams engine aproaches, gets within three track sectiuons of the switch, from any of the three ways in and out of the switch. 2) they develop problems over time, example is they start acting like there is a blinker from a christmas tree light set inside the switch housing, it stays powered up for two or three seconds then loses all power for two to three seconds and then the power comes back on and repeats this until it starts smoking.
Just for the everybody’s information; I followed all instructions that came with these switches from Lionel!!! [soapbox][banghead]
Even the guys at Williams Electric Trains(before Bachmann buyout) said these switches were DUDS!!
Lee F.
I am going to spend some time today with these switches to see if I can make them work. If I can, I might be willing to buy any that others of you guys have that you don’t want. I am an electrical engineer, and am taking this as a challenge. I already have 67 022 switches that I have spent 2-3 hours each modifying and soldering connections, etc., so that they operate properly. They now are bullet proof as I can run the trains for several hours without a switch malfunctioning. If you want to see the posts on how to modify the 022 switches, look for 022/711 switch pblms. I think I uncovered every problem the 022 switches have and found a fix for each one. I will let you know how I make out with my modification to the 3011 switch. Bruce Baker
Bruce,
For what it’s worth, maybe you can gut the 23010 & 23011 and put a DZ-1000 switch machine in the 23010. At least that is my idea of how to get one to work again. Ross Custom Switches sells the DZ-1000’s and the DZ-2500’s seperately. I like the style of the 23010’s but boy are they a problem child and a half!
The old 022’s from the post war era were pretty simple to fix, either you had a short or an open or the solenoid locked up. Just solder the wire that came off from the switch point, that is what I have seen happen mainly.
Lee F.
Yes, Lee F. has it. Bruce the 022 are pretty simple to get running again. I’m not an electrical whiz by any means and mine are permanently mounted for 5 years now and never fail. Not even once. They were all tuned up by me. Now the 23010/1s are another story. Even if you get them working. You will most likely have problems down the road. Once down, cutting out switches is not a pleasant task ( if you solder track connections like me). Especially if you have to repeatedly patch scenery. Just m y two cents. Mike S.
Right now my layout is on the floor, so taking out a switch is no big deal. No scenery or soldered connections or screws to deal with.
Check out my posts on 022 switches at 022/711 switch pblms. You will find out that there are a bunch of problems associated with 022 switches, but once the switches have been suitably modified, they seem to be totally reliable.
Unlike the 022s, the 3011s seem to have a number of design and tolerance errors. It remains to be seen if I can fix all these without making it a big deal.
Bruce Baker
okay, a man who likes a challenge 
Go for it. Let us know and maybe you can let Lionel know too. Mike S.
I have three of these in use on my layout, and love them.
I find that increasing the coil voltage can more reliably allow them to close.
In any case, mine are in use in a place where an O22 wouldn’t be feasible. These switches allowed me to cram three yard tracks where an O22 would have only permitted two. I love the design, and wish that Lionel would have taken the time to make them bullet proof rather than reintroducing the O22.
Jon(Kooljock) also have five of these in use on his layout, and to my knowledge hasn’t had any trouble. In my opinion, they get a lot more bad press than they deserve.
I think there must have been two versions of the 3011 switch. The ones I have are so bad that there is no possibility that a train would run through the switch without derailing. I just finished a modification to one of the 3011s and it is now working perfectly. I just backed a 10 car train through it several times without a problem. My 2046 Hudson goes through it forward and backwards without a problem. I am now going to modify a 3010 and then put the two of them in the layout where they will get seriously exercised. If all goes well, I may offer to buy any of these that anyone wants to get rid of. I want to use them for a yard where I want the tracks spaced closely together. I have several 042 switches (manual version of the 022) which I have considered cutting down so the curved part is about 2/3s the length of a standard curved track section. This is the same as the 3011s. I could then put a 022 switch motor on it if I wanted to, and even hook up the non-derailing if it was necessary. BTW, I got past the problem of making a good electrical connection between track sections. I bend the center pin to the right and the left pin to the left and this makes a much better connection than squeezing the female ends of the rails. This doesn’t do anything for the track in which the pin is installed, and has to be done every time the track is connected together. The bent pin approach ( actually, it is the bent rail approach, since the rail where the pin is installed is what is bent) works well enough that I have very few feeds on my layout, and, since it is on the carpet, no solder is possible. I wish I had discovered this approach years ago as I have always had a layout on the floor which needs to be taken apart and set up again. Bruce Baker
Bruce, I also had issues with a 3011 turnout, but received some great advice on the micro-switches inside the unit from Kooljock1 (Jon, I believe). My thread is “Lionel 3011 Turnout/Controller Problem” and is now on page 27 or so of this forum.
Good luck!
I discovered some microswitch issues also. The switches trip too soon, and I have modified (bent) the arm that operates the switch so that the switch opens just before the slider is at the end of travel. These switches apparently have a different coil than the 022s. They operate well on a much lower voltage than the 022s. I am about to modify a 3010 and get the pair in the layout to see how they do. Bruce Baker
I have the pair in the layout in a place where they have to switch several times as the train completes its circuit around the layout. I am running a 2333 F-3 and so far, the switches have worked perfectly. The slider is not going full stroke on the 3010, so I need to modify the microswitch arms. The switches are running on track voltage which measures at 8.4 volts. This track voltage is running the F-3 with a dummy B unit and 10 cars. 8 of the cars are PW, the other two are MPC. I think the switches would operate better on a fixed 12-14 volts. At a higher voltage, I think the switches would beat themselves to death. Tomorrow I will test the switches with the 2046. Bruce Baker
I changed the power for the 3010 & 3011 from the track voltage to 14 volts fixed from a transformer. I tested the switches with my 2046 Hudson. So far, the switches have worked perfectly. Bruce Baker
Bruce,
I used the constant voltage screw on the 23011 and set the voltage to about 13.35 to 13.5 volts by using a digital multimeter to measure the transformer output. Still I had problems with these switches. For some reason Williams engines made these switches act totally crazy, even though the electronics is very close to what Lionel used during the MPC era.
If I can I might modify one of my 23011’s to use with a DZ Industry’s DZ-1000 switch motor, this is what is used in Gargraves & Ross Custom switches.
I am not an electrical engineer but I did have ASE certification in auto mechanics and I have a decent knowledge of residential and commercial electrical work, so hopefully I can modify one of these switches as well.
Lee F.
Lee, There are no electronics in the 3010/1 switches. They use a circuit that is identical to the 022 switches except the coil has more turns so the switch will operate at a lower voltage. The switch doesn’t know what kind of locomotive is on the track. The switch can get a little crazy if the microswitches are not adjusted properly. I still have a little work to do on my switches to get the microswitches adjusted the way I want them. Check to make sure your microswitches operate before the slider reaches the end of its travel. I ran them for about 2 hours last night without a misfire. The switches probably operated at least 50 times. The two switches are wired together and the non-derailing circuit of one switch operates the other switch. the switches are back to back with the points end of the switches facing each other. Bruce Baker
Bruce,
Thank you for the tip about no electronics in these switches. With that being the case why do they operate differantly with Williams engines or Lionel’s two position reverse unit(F-R-F, no N) in the MPC era Santa Fe Alco diesel engine. At least this has been my observation about these switches.
Lee F.
“…the coil has more turns so the switch will operate at a lower voltage.” Bruce, generally, more turns in the same volume will require a greater voltage for the same magnetic effect. For example, if you go up 3 AWG sizes, you halve the cross-sectional area and can get twice the turns in. But the resistance is doubled because of the smaller wire and doubled again by having twice as many turns of it. So the magnetic field, proportional to ampere-turns, is halved unless you also double the voltage.
If the coils have been redesigned for lower voltage operation, I think it more likely that they use fewer turns of heavier wire.