What are these worth? Like a Challenger new in the box never run? I have not seem one or heard what people think. Also can you get parts if you need them?
Hello. Lionel no longer makes HO scale items. I don’t know exactly when they backed out of a short foray, but it would have been perhaps five or six years ago…? To my knowledge, they only made the Challenger in two or three versions and the Gas Turbine I think they called it. I have one of the Greyhound Challengers and feel that it is right up there with the best of the metal die-cast models that I own (which happens to be exactly two). Sound is about as good as one should expect in an HO scale tender, although the whistle is fairly far off in the QSI sound files. It is a fairly robust puller and it tracks well.
The Challengers were retailing at around $500 or so IIRC, but you could get them for less. I feel there must be several out there with low or no mileage on them, but they are quite scarce, so I wouldn’t expect them to go for much less than perhaps $350-400, depending on the bidding interests at the time…perhaps a fair bit more than that.
Parts, I have no idea. You would hope that Lionel would service them, but I wouldn’t hold out a lot of it. I haven’t gotten to that point in its life cycle yet.
Sorry to be less than positive with my suppositions, but I don’t know any better than what I have related to you. Perhaps someone who has recently attempted to either repair one or to actually buy one will pipe up.
So far everyone wants 435 to 900 dollars. I would like to get one for $400. But i am not sure which one. The grey hound is great but I assume it was for passenger service. I really want one for frieght. Oh well I will continue my search for one. Ebay is a little rank [xx(] on the prices.
Well you have to just keep looking on ebay, flea markets, etc. Sometimes it’s taken me months and months to find something I want at a decent price. It seems to me some dealers were selling those Lionel engines fairly cheap when it was announced Lionel was going to go back out of HO (again!) due to their legal problems with MTH and all that. They apparently were pretty good engines, being Lionel eventually they’ll probably become “collectibles” and escalate in value beyond whatever you pay for it now…or maybe not - you never can be sure!!
“Collectable” is the word for Lionel! - HO or tin[plate! I have the Veranda Turbine, and from what I’ve seen on E thing, it can bring 2 or 3 times what I paid for it! I have a couple of '70’s HO flatcars that I’ve been offered $45 ea for, and they are more toy-like than almost anything else I own! - and that’s with a $.99 price sticker from a discounter on them! The Veranda is a nice engine, and the Lionel “collectable” value is what prompted me to shell out $400+ for it! The grandkids love it, so it will not get “collector” value in my lifetime. OTH, if I still had my & my uncles 1950’s & 30’s sets . . . . . [:(!]
To GTX765:
I have two of Lionel’s last HO models, UP Challenger # 3708 (black with smoke deflectors) and UP Veranda Turbine #61. Bought them new at LHS at reduced prices (@$320 each) in early 2005. They’re well made (heavy!), run fine, and sound good. My grandson and I put them in our top 10 of favorite locos (from a fleet of 49 mixed steam, diesel, dcc, and dc locos, 19 with dcc/sound). Haven’t needed parts so far. Hope you can find a new one at a price you like.
Hello GTX765, Ebay is a good place to pick them up (with a bit of patience). You should be able to score one in the $350-$475 range in excellent shape. Anyone asking $700 plus usually has it listed pretty well on a permanent basis. For $900 you can buy a an older brass Challenger in pretty reasonable shape. I bought my first one back when they were new and paid retail(I know, I know) I’ve since scored three more for less than what I paid for the first.
Happy hunting, Andrew
Here is a listing for a new one at a dealer. It is the #3985 in black. Email me if you want the dealers name.
Cheers
UP 4-6-6-4 #3985 UP Challenger Coal-DCC&DC Lionel HO 6-58000 Lionel New $369 62109
The Verandas and Challengers were announced/released around 2003 thru 2004.
I have three of the Lionel HO Challengers and have been very happy with them. I brought two of them used off e-bay for around $200 and was able to get replacement parts free from Lionel to make repairs (they didn’t even charge for shipping). The third I brought new from a retail site for $400. I tore all of them apart and made minor modifications to improve running performance. Here is information I have based on the Challenger brochure:
Challenger
The first number is Lionel’s stock number - there were six versions in two different road numbers each. The first color indicated is the primary color of the locomotive and tender and the second color is the number/letter color on the locomotive and tender.
(6-58000) Union Pacific #3985 (Black/white, coal fired)
(6-58001) Union Pacific #3989 (Black/white, coal fired)
(6-58002) Union Pacific #3708 (Black/white, oil fired with smoke deflectors)
(6-58003) Union Pacific #3710 (Black/white, oil fired with smoke deflectors)
(6-58004) Union Pacific #3976 (Gray/yellow, oil fired with smoke deflectors)
(6-58005) Union Pacific #3983 (Gray/yellow, oil fired with smoke deflectors)
(6-58006) Union Pacific #3980 (Gray/silver, oil fired with smoke deflectors)
(6-58007) Union Pacific #3984 (Gray/silver, oil fired with smoke deflectors)
(6-58008) Denver & Rio Grande Western #3801 (Black/white, coal fired)
(6-58009) Denver & Rio Grande Western #3805 (Black/white, coal fired)
(6-58010) Clinchfield #671 (Black/yellow, coal fired with single stack)
(6-58011) Clinchfield #673 (Black/yellow, coal fired with single stack)
Veranda
I do not have a Veranda brochure but I believe there were six road numbers and two versions:
(6-58100) Union Pacific #61 (Silver trucks)
(6-58101) Union Pacific #73 (Silver trucks)
(6-58102) Union Pacific
When MTH brought their lawsuit against Lionel and Lionel filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, they dumped the remaining Challengers on the market and they were selling for as little as $250 by some of the major discount e-tailers.
I bought one prior to that and paid close to $450 for it at discount.
What they’re worth today depends on what the person paid for it originally and whether or not they are trying to recoup their investment plus make some profit on the side.
Are you asking about their value because you have one, or are looking for one? Selling on this forum is not allowed, so you need to check e-Bay.
I doubt very much that parts are available because Lionel dumped them on the market to clear the shelves and get out of HO altogether.
I have 2 lionel challengers… bought each for around 400. They are worth the $$$$ , you wont be disappointed.
GTX765, there is a pictorial diagram and a parts list for the Veranda (one each for the tender and engine) but none for the Challenger. I spoke to Lionel about this when I first needed parts and they said they were never completed for the Challenger when the decision was made to dump them due to legal problems as cacole has mentioned above.
I ordered parts on two different occasions by describing in detail what I needed. Customer Service filled both orders accurately and timely. As I mentioned earlier there was no charge. I got the impression they were not going to replenish the parts that were left over from the initial run once they were gone.
That is scary, so if it breaks your doomed? Does it have a life time warranty?
[:o)] You funny guy!! [:D]
(no)
Gosh If I get one I will be sure to take extra care of it like a Vase from the Ming Dynasty.
Lifetime warranty ? [swg]
A warranty is worthless if the manufacturer doesn’t have parts or offer repair service for the item.
How long Lionel will continue to have parts available is anyone’s guess.
IIRC, the Challenger was Lionel’s first venture into the world of HO since they were owned by General Mills, and I don’t remember when that was.
case i wanna mention it, The veranda is nice, I saw it at LHS. But Lionel did the American Freedom Trains as well way bac in the 70s. And the things are lousy. There’s no such thing as the trucks staying on, and the couplers are attached in the oddest positions, so one can’t really change them. The baggage display cars are decent detailed, as there’s little difference to any oither Baggage. But detail on the observation could havre been better. The 4-8-4 runs with the usual clicking of a 30 year old loco, with a whole host of pulling and coupling issues.
Well I got at a good price, well good as in cheaper than what the retailers and the Ebay sellers wanted. I like it but everything I have read is correct. It has no oil or grease on the wheels gears or anything. It runs well but the tender is so heavy you could use it as a wheel chaulk for a 747. I mean its HEAVY. The detail is the best thing I like about. When I made a test run I found out right away I had one turn to do some track work on. I fixed it and all is good. The sound is ok but my Yb6 from PCM has better sound in my mind. Though its a little loud and I read in the forums some cotton in the tender might help to dampen the sound. It like it and will run it now and again. It seems it will be a collector item since the price is going up and the limited production. I saw the Veranda but I do not think it for me or my layout. Maybe I will post pics in the future but I am sure you have already seen one. Thanks for all of you input and suggestions.
Open up the tender and remove the 3/4" cubed lead weight that you find. It’s not needed, and the tender will tow just as well. Mine does, and if frees the engine from having to lug that useless weight.
I have a LARGE collection of the Lionel HO Challengers, these are my FAVORITE HO locomotive of all time, NONE that I prefer over them. Another bit of advice in addition to removing the tender weight, is to remove the cover on the rigid 5 axle pedestal on the tender and add a little oil to each journal, they are shipped with dry journals and will squeak to high heaven that way, this will also help improve Tractive Effort more than you would expect, they really need this oiling.
If you properly oil and break these in, they are EXCELLENT SMOOOOOTH SLOW runners, I don’t have much brass (and haven’t been impressed with what I have had) but the only other large steamers that run slow as smooothly as these are the Trix Bigboys, and the Proto Heritage Y-3s, both are also very smooth slow running Locomotives.
Doug