Lionel Husky Stack Containers are not "scale"

Fellow train hobbyist,

I’m only a year into the hobby. I started collecting Lionel Husky Stack cars and MTH tank cars which I pull with my Lionel LEGACY diesel locomotives. These match the trains I see while driving past Worchester Ma. For Christmas, my daughter bought me a nice three pack of MTH 48 foot ISO containers. These turned out to be longer than my Lionel 48’ ISO containers so I started measuring things. The Lionel 48’ “scale proportion” containers are in fact only 11.5” when a “scale” 48’ ISO should be one foot long. The MTH containers are one foot long.

I’d like some feedback on the “scale” issue. Do MTH and Atlas make “scale” components and Lionel not? Or are the Lionel 48’ ISOs simply close enough.

Thanks,

Atlas O (not Trainman and not Industrial Rail) is scale, their O gauge passenger cars scale out at 21"-22". MTH Premier loco’s are scale while items like their passenger cars are not scale (18"). K-Line used to make scale (aka 21"), near scale (18"), O-31 (15-16") and O-27 (12") passenger cars. Lionel “Standrad O” usually means scale but not always. There is also the issue of the intermodal containers may have been made to work with the operating intermodal crane accessory issued a few years ago and that scale issues took aq back seat to compatibility.

Some items listed as “scale” by each of the manufacturers are not exactly scale. If you are that concerned, best suggestion is to go to your local hobby shop and actually measure the items before purchase. Often, for either production reasons, or operability reasons, some items are cheated a little to make a big difference in operations. (ie: being able to navigate O36 vs O54 curves.) I have read reviews in the pages of both CTT and OGR in which they mention even MTH Premier and Atlas items being slightly out of scale. For most, it is not an issue. For some, if it is not scale, they don’t want it.
Dennis

By your comment, the MTH containers are not “scale” either. Don’t know which Legacy engines you have, but there are some that are more scale than others…

I suppose it is safe to say discussing the subject of scale is a large can of worms. There is scale detailed, scale proportioned, no where close, traditional, tinplate, and scale and probably some more. Then there is the fact that many can not even agree on what absolute scale is for O, some sa

Don’t take me wrong but to put it bluntly you are what most in here call a rivet counter. Now theres nothing wrong with that except you are expecting to much out of TOYS. Basicly is what they are and if you ever went to a real rail road I bet you would find differences between the legnths of there cars. ( if for no reason other than getting bang

If you’re going to scold him for a perfectly reasonable question about the dimensions of containers, I’m going to scold you for presuming to tell other people how to enjoy this hobby. You know that “rivet counter” is an insult; and your “nothing wrong with that” doesn’t get you off the hook.

You don’t even understand what his concern is. It is not the length of cars but the length of containers, which are tightly standardized. Forty-eight-foot containers are 48 feet long exactly, so that they will mate with the cars that carry them and with each other. It doesn’t work to mix varying non-standard lengths either in the prototype world or in the models.

This hobby has a lot of different aspects, ranging from collecting to operating to building scenery to making precise models (“rivet counting”) to kitbashing to electronics. Every one of us emphasizes the part of it that we enjoy and none of us has any business telling anyone else what he should be doing with his hobby and how he should be having fun.

Your spelling and grammar could use some work–but there’s nothing wrong with that.

My stand on the scale issue is this;

“What is the overall visual imapct of the car or locomotive or building that you are looking at ?”

Does it “look right ?” The inaccurracies are not perceptable to the unaided eye. Watching an O gauge train run is not all that different from watching an HO or N scale train run as long as you keep the speed down and the curves are some what gentle. There are benefits, as pointed out above,to some of the inaccuracies. For example, being able to operate around sharp curves allows you to build a larger layout in a smaller space. The third rail is a more reliable electical contact which in turn leads to more reliable operation.

I have been in three rail O gauge ever since I can remember. I do remember getting my first Lionel train but I cannot tell you exactly how old I was. I was probably 5 years old,but I can’t say for sure. Even though I have built layouts in HO and belonged to HO clubs, I still come back to O gauge. I have a huge emotional attachment to it. I have had a lot of good times with O gauge trains and a lot of happy memories with them. Part of the model train experience for me are those very inaccuracies mentioned above.

Having said that, I do try to make my layout as realistic as I can. I am a member of OPSIG and I use some of their techniques in the operation of my railroad. I’m a railfan also, and work at a museum.

George

I was not trying to insult the person as some are very acute about there layout. as I was saying It okay meaning if that’s how you are fine I misunderstood the scope of the question probably ( my big fault) because I was reading to fast. I apologize if it was insulting as didn’t want to. we are all here to enjoy trains and after rereading my post i did come across very harsh and didn’t mean to. I was just trying to basically say that some times you can go overboard on detail as other basically were saying. As for rivet counter I been given in the past a complete different meaning than your implying. And I probally used it wrong then to wha

I might be wrong, but I beg to differ with that Chuck. I’m pretty sure Atlas Trainman cars are scale. I dont know about Industrial Rail though as I don’t have any of them.

Bill,

Peace. And Merry Christmas.

There is a good article in the Nov 2008 issue of Model Railroad News about intermodal freight equipment and how it evolved. There are several minor variations to double stack containers. According to the article, Maersk did put out a 45 foot container which would be 11 1/4" in O scale.

Lionel offers both Maxi Stack and Husky stack well cars and it’s likely they use the same generic container. Lionel often makes minor compromises with scale equipment to get it to run on the smallest diameter curves they can. More so than others.

I tend to agree with RT. If I wanted everything near exact, I would be doing 2 rail proto 48. On the other hand, there are compatibility issues when making up stack trains with containers from different manufacturers. The compatibility issue exists in the real world as well so the ole saying “there is a prototype for everything” applies here.

Dennis - you ask, “I guess my question is does that 1/2” difference in container size really bother you that much?"

Unfortunately, when it comes to fitting containers into the car it can make a big difference. I don’t have the Lionel cars mentioned, but my guess is that if their containers are 11 1/2 inches long, then maybe a 12 inch container doesn’t fit?

I’ve got a set of the Atlas Gundersons, and the only containers that I have bought are the Atlas ones as I know that they fit the Atlas cars.

Jim

I stand corrrected, TrainMan is scale, jut less detailed (according to Atlas web site).

I have a few of the Atlas Master line tank cars and they are definetly more detailed than my Trainman tank cars.

But regardless, both still look great, especially weathered.

I think that if you are really into scale, it serves one well to bring a small ruler into a hobby shop to check. In years past, Fine scale people had to build kits or modify available rolling stock and engines. These days, manufacturers are making some pretty nice looking pieces and very close to scale, but again, these are expensive toys/pieces of art we collect/play with. If you are going to go into a local hobby shop to check the pieces, please make the purchase there, at least the first one and buy additional ones wherever.

Currently, I am watching the program on the history of Toy Trains and they are speaking about the #5344 “Scale Hudson”. even on that model, they missed the rivet count on the tender…so, you can get as accurate as you want, but it’ll cost you. My personal taste is for what looks good and allows for some fun. I have all kinds of different size O gauge trains. Some are scale, most not. But it is what I like.

dennis

Seems I accidentally kicked a hornet’s nest.

I like my Lionel Husky Stack cars. I was disappointed that the MTH containers did not fit into the Lionel cars and I was wondering why. The MTH containers will look great stacked in my freight yard (which I will build some day). I am beginning to understand that the components from different manufacturers are not interchangeable at every level. My education continues. Thanks for the lively feedback.

Jim, That is a very reasonable point. So, maybe the concern is more with compatibility or lack there of due to inconsistencies between the various manufactures when it comes to “scale”. Definitely reasonable if you want to mix and match containers in a yard etc.

I did some looking to try to rationalize the possible differences in the containers. In the Lionel catalog, the standard O cars are described as “scale proportions” No where does it say 1/48th scale. So you go through and assume MTH containers are 1/48th scale which does figure out to be 12 inches. Lets assume that Lionel chose to utilize 1/50th scale for those double stack cars. Work that out and you get 11.52 inches for the same 48 foot container. So we can see that a seemingly minor difference in scale could cause this difference in product size. I have no idea if this is the reason for the difference in the length of the containers, I don’t have any of those cars and cannot check. But if any of you do, maybe compare the car lengths (without the couplers as they are not what we are after here) and widths, do some math and maybe we’ll discover some good information.

Also could Lionel just missed it!

I would be willing to bet Lionel took the liberty of altering the scale for some reason, maybe curve radius for example. Practically everything they have made has been selectively compre

It might be interesting to check the width and height. Domestic 48-foot containers are 8 1/2-feet wide and 9 1/2-feet tall, which is 2 1/8 inches by 2 3/8 inches in 1/48 scale.

Then why did you bring it up? Careful, some of US are not a “brainy” as others. I’ve always thought this forum was informal and things like dat did not matter.

It can be fun designing equipment that will fit in those babies![banghead]