What does everyone think about this? Lionel produces two models, the Challenger and Veranda, in HO, and now, they have decided to quit HO. Now, me personally, I would at least think they would stick with it for a bit longer, to get accurate feed back on their models. Can two high priced models give a company the information they need?
~[8]~ TrainFreak409 ~[8]~
The fact that MTH won a $40 million lawsuit against Lionel could have something to do with their dropping the HO line. We may never know.
Bob Boudreau
The MTH lawsuit/judgement may have something to do with the decision, but I think the HO line just was not working out. Lionel has been in and out of HO about 4 times and does not seem to last in the HO market.
Jim Bernier
Based on the evidence I have seen so far, Lionel made some significant errors with this effort into HO.
They clearly over estimated the demand. How long has the blow out sale been going on now? The fact that they are not all gone yet suggests a huge blunder in their estimate. They must have taken a real cash flow hit with this.
Were a Turbine and the Challenger good choices for getting into the market? Perhaps a simpler, lower cost model with wider appeal would have been a better starting point?
It does not seem as if they got all the bugs ironed out of the models either. There have been several reports of problems on the forum.
So all in all, this has been a misguided effort. I would imagine that some heads may have rolled as a result.
If they were smart, they would have started out with a wider consumer base locomotive like Simon has stated.
Not everyone has the desire of need for UP only locomotives. Especially ones made to run on broad curves such as the Challenger & Turbine
I don’t.
A decent Mikido, Pacific or Hudson would have been better.
But that’s my 2 cents.
Gordon
Guys, Lionel has tried to make it in HO at least 3 other times in their history, dating all the way back to the 1960’s. Each time they have failed for a different reason. This time they offered maybe their best products ever, but the MTH lawsuit seems to have rendered that moot.
The Lionel name does not translete well into the HO market. I don’t expect that MTH will either. How in God’s name could they possibly compete with the likes of Athearn, Atlas Walthers, etc.
You forgot TYCO![:D]
Just NOT another F7!!! [sigh]
(I think I’ve only owned one Lionel HO product in a 30 year span, this being a missle launching flat car).
Well, I’m just going to chime in on everything here:
As an HO person, when I think of Lionel I think of tinplate 3-rail O, not high-end HO
While the turbines are interesting locomotives, they’re only really used by one railroad in one era, which is very limiting
Sure they’re nice looking models, but they’re also out of my price range.
As for the models they could make, I think we’ve got several pages of threads with some great ideas on this forum somewhere.
I agree. I’m astonished at the prices of many of the new loco releases. I know that I can’t pay $300+ for a locomotive.
I take it you aren’t in the market for Pennsy K-4’s from MTH either.[swg]
Yeah Rod, Tyco too.[;)][:p]
As Simon posted, Lionel did make some blunders. Poor pulling power of the challenger is one major blunder. Overproduction could be another. And the lawsuit may of had some impact.
I agree that the stuff is a bit pricey for the typical HO budget. $100 dollar Kato and Atlas engines along with $10 Athearn and MDC kits seem to be the biggest sellers. These are from my own observations and I could be all wet. $500 engines are not for the masses.
Athearn as we know it today has been around for what? Three, four, decades? They are still offering the same kits they made 30 years ago and they sell well. Why? They seem to have the right chemistry and the right price. Something that is very difficult to achieve.
MTH stuff is pricey too and they are attracting a small affluent crowd. MTH wants to keep their own unique technology to themselves with patents. They expect people to buy DCS controllers and buy only MTH engines where DCC engines won’t work with their controllers. That philosophy works in the 3 rail O gauge market where brand loyalist are abound and not many standards exist. I doubt it will work in the HO market. I do not see many brand loyalists in HO and industry standards pretty much rule in a buyer’s thinking. If MTH is slow to get involved in HO standards by sharing technology, they may be out the door. They certainly are quick to take open technolgy developed by others but you’ll be damned if you use technology that is identical to MTH.
Mabey Lionel would have learned from their first two mistakes, Veranda and UP Challenger, and actually make a good locomotive that can sell well.
T’would be swell if Lionel announced another giant steamer of vast improvement over the previous flops instead of giving up for the 3rd time.
But if production quality continued to be the same as this low level Challenger I got, Then I’m glad they left HO.
I think if they hung in there a little longer, they may have had a break through. BLI’s first two productions were not up to the level their at now. As time goes on, you learn from your mistakes and your products will get better.
Lionel leaving HO is a downer for me cause this means one less steam manufacture. Which lessens our chance for a DM&IR Yellowstone.
I suspect they presumed that their ardent following in O would instantly translate into HO. Frankly, I think they jumped in a shark tank wearing baloney underwear… [:)]
Nah, that flawed logic belongs exclusively to MTH.[swg]
Lionel has made different blunders each time with their HO attempts.[B)]
Back in the 1980s, didn’t Lionel produce an HO scale Southern Pacific Daylight Steamer? The GS4?
(Bachmann made one in the 70s—not a good runner)
Lionel made a version of the Hustler (or maybe it was an Athearn rebrand) and a E-33 electric that was on a GP-9 frame back in the 50’s.
Dave H.
[xx(]Antonio–yes, there was a Lionel GS-4 back in the '80’s, but I don’t know whether they made it or just licensed it from Bachmann. I got one lettered for Western Pacific, and it was a real grinder and could barely pull its tender. It wasn’t around for very long, as I remember. I finally gave mine to my nephew, he promptly burned out the motor and put it in a park on display on his own model RR. For all I know, it’s probably still there.
Tom
I don’t think the Hustler was made by Athearn. I saw one of the Lionel models once, and it had a gear drive, as opposed to Athearn’s rubber band drive.
Bob Boudreau