I have the Lionel RS-3 that came with the Glaicer Route set.
Can this Loco be convertred to 8 wheel drive?
Is it worth doing?
It looks like it would only take a motor, a set of pick up rollers and 3 gears.
Thanks
Don’t see why not; I did it to an Alaska gp a few years ago. I bought a whole motor truck asm from Lionel. Easy to do, just switch the power wires to the new one so they both run in the same direction. Also, add about 6 oz. of weight and you’ll have an engine worth running.
I have a Lehigh Valley RS-3 with dual motors and while it looks good, it’s not a great pulling engine compared to my dual motor Williams diesels and Lionel GP’s with magnetraction and a single "Pullmor’ motor. You can probably get the parts for the conversion, but I’m not sure that its going to be worth the expense compared to purchasing a new engine with better can motors and flywheels.
You can do it. You need a motor, some gears, and a few “speed nuts” to secure the extra drive components. You can also wire the motors in series and get better low speed performance. The unit will never have the pulling power of a vertical can motored loco, but it will handle a fair number of modern rolling stock that has needle point axles and fast angle wheels especially on level track.
I have the Lionel RS-3 (I actually bashed it, so “had” an RS-3). Pulling power was almost nonexistant. Play with weights over the wheels. It will pull 3 times more with the added weights. I also wired the 2nd truck for power, as it wouldn’t even make it thru switches without stopping.
The gearing, fortunately, is in place in the 2nd truck so you just need to drop in a motor. Suggest taking it to a hobby shop with parts and a knowledgable person!
| It is easily done as the trucks are set-up to be powered all that you need are the gears and motor.I had my LHS add another power truck(along with a 3 position E-unit) to a construction zone RS-3 that I got for practically nothing.After re-painting in NYC lightning-stripe livery she can pull 20 plus cars with no problems.I would recommend adding a little weight. |
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You’ve probably already seen what I did with my Lionel Construction loco:
Garfield, I’m surprised no one thus far has brought up this point. YES, it can be done, but you will need to have a wheel puller and also a very good vice grip to get the wheels back on. The entire non-powered truck will have to be taken apart, and both sets of wheels need to be removed inorder to get the gears on to their shafts.
You’ll also want a wiring diagram from Lionel (or someone here can help?} as to where and what wires from the circuit board reverse unit go to what. I’ve never had one of those single motored units apart, so it could be Lionel uses a different circuit board for these units? Or uses the normal unit but removes the extra wires?
Yes, the unit will run and pull better with a second motor. Though you may need to add some additional weight to the unit and re-adhere traction tires. I too had the Lehigh Valley RS-3 (before I cobbed it for parts to make new loco types) and it pulled just fine and handled long trains with ease - but I added some more weight and used 3-M Carpet Tape to make sure the traction tires were not slipping. This made all the difference. If your traction tires are loose, they might as well not be there because either way they won’t work.
And now to Lionel… I understand the need to control costs, but these single motored diesels are a poor place to do it. They don’t pull for beans as is - and I’ve heard Lionel Value Added dealers say as much. These budget priced locos are the business card to future buyers… these are the products that your first time buyers will be purchasing. If they don’t pull even a few cars, what makes anyone at Lionel think they’ll buy anything else?? If you need to, raise prices on the newly developed and newly tooled scale items (which is where the price increases should rightfully be) and put two motors into ALL budget priced diesels. Lionel has lost sales to me and to others who buy other products that run and perform better for the same if not less money.<
Must disagree with Brianel!
It is a snap to do when you replace the whole assembly. There are only 2 wires to the new motor, just connect them in parallel to the original (but switch them i.e. red-to-black so they will turn the same direction. The blue wire goes to the other blue wire, and yellow to yellow. No wiring diagrams needed, sheesh! It’s very simple. In fact, they use wire nuts so you don’t even have to solder anything.
He is right about the weight I have the two Christmas RS3s, each with 2 motors. Even then they were weak until I added about 5.5 oz lead right over the fuel tank. Now I’d say they are comparable to a postwar geep–my test is how they pull up a standard Lionel trestle set.
The hardest part was coming up with a part # for the truck assembly. I believe it cost around 25 bucks, which is still cheaper than buying another engine. Also much easier than adding the gears, as Brianel said (guess I agree with him more than disagree, after all [:D])
| No ,it is not necessary to pull the wheels.All Tom(My repair guy at my LHS) had to do was take off the truck and put in the gears and motor.He told me it only took about 10 minutes. |
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Philo, your guy Tom has to be a magician. I’m looking at mine now, and I’ll concede the possibility of pressing on the pinion gear, but there’s no way a normal human can get the intermediate gears onto their studs without pulling the wheels–there’s just too much wheel flange to get by [%-)]
It may depend on the truck assembly. I did this to a US Navy NW-2 and it did not require pulling wheels. The motor with pinion gear drops in and the cluster gear with pal nut are installed. It takes about 10-15 minutes. If you can find a complete power truck, go for it.
Well since I did not actually witness the conversion,I can only rely on Tom’s word.I asked him if there were any problems when I picked it up and he replied:“Not at all just took a few minutes”.Since I have known him for many years,and he has proven himself trustworthy,I’ll have to take his word for it.It is possible that Lionel may have changed the truck design since I had it converted(Which was in 2001 I believe).The copyright date is 1999 so this may be true.
Yeah, it must be different trucks. Mine has no pal nuts. The intermediate gears are retained by the wheels and pinion gear only. Less parts=cheaper to make I suppose, and to the Big Fiery Place with ease of service!
Lionel has been using the same basic design on these trucks since the late 1980’s when the truck mounted DC can motored locos became the norm. I have yet to see an engine that was advertised with one powered truck and one dummy truck ever have the necessary gears included on the dummy truck. Remember, the dummy truck is there to save money and reduce costs, so they’re not going to put gears in something with no motor. This was true of Lionel and K-Line locos with single motors.
The center pins that are part of the inner truck frame assembly are so close to the wheels that there’s no way to get the gears in without removing the wheels. I suppose it is possbile that the wheels had enough play in the axle mounting that you might be able to wedge them in. But you still need to pull the wheels because the mounting holes where the motor screws in are directly behind the gears.
Also remember that when Lionel blew out their parts inventory years ago, many bought bulk loads of unusual parts and partial assemblies. It is entirely possible that there are dummy trucks out there with the plastic gears already in them. But you still need to remove this to screw the motor into place.
I do also suppose it is possible for a dealer to do this job quickly if he has all the proper tools ready on a workbench with a soldering guy on and ready to go. But getting everything apart can or could take close to 10 minutes depending on the loco. And provided there are pickup wires already in place and the Mabuchi motor has pre-soldered on lead wires. If these things are done, add in more time. It’s certainly taken me longer than 10 minutes to do the job with hand tools and a hand held wheel puller. The K-Line S-2’s for example have more to remove, like the circuit board and the weight screwed in over the truck pin and “C” clamp.
The wiring is easy for someone who has done this before. I’d was going on the side on sure, rather than sorry given inexperience. T
Guys:
So the cure for the performance problems with my two-motor RS-3 is to:
(1) Add 5.5 to 6 oz of weight either in the vicinity of the fuel tank which is probably the most convenient location or split up the weight (I have .5 oz weights with adhesive backing) so that the weight is added as close to the trucks as possible.
(2) If low speed performance is a problem, wire the motors in series. I’ll probably do this on a “before and after” basis and post the results back regarding any change in voltage for a given speed.
(3) Any thoughts about whether going to TMCC from conventional might also help?
This is the great thing about the forum, you really get the benefit of other folks experience in getting the most out of your trains, thanks!
Mike
No, TMCC will not affect the performance.
These are photo’s of the trucks from a RS-3 from 1988-89 and an NW-2 circa 1994-1995. Both use the horizontal can motors. I didn’t have to pull the wheels to add the second motor to the NW-2. I purchased a motor with pinion gear, the cluster gear and the palnut. The drive gears were part of the truck.
That looks like my truck. Can you tell me where you bought the motor and gears and or some Lionel Part numbers?
Thanks to evry one for the quick replys.
My experience matches Brianel’s; haven’t seen a dummy truck that came with gears yet…altho they do have geared wheels on the axles.
Where is the friggin’ pal nut? On the motor shaft? My pinions are just pressed on…
| Okay I talked to Tom and he told me that the non-powered truck was identical to the powered truck except forthe deleted gears and motor.The gear-faces were molded into the back of the metal drive wheels,so all that he had to do was install the gears and motor,along with a bit of wiring. |
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