Well I purchased a set of the Sante Fe warbonnet A-B-A Lionel F-7’s and they are really nice… sound is the best, love the flywheel and pitman motor, however the pulling power is just not what I expected. Has any one purchased the newer F7 / F3’s and have had the same issue? My grade is only a modest 2.2%. And I cannot even pull 4 15 inch lionel passenger cars up the grade. I flipped the powered unit over and even though it is a dual motor unit, only 2 wheels in each truck actually are geared. These have traction tires but still slip. I did not want to spend the addtional 299.00 for the powered B unit, and the fact they are sold out is another issue. Is there anything else I can do to help these units?
I hesitate to reply, because I don’t know that I am comparing apples to apples in this case. I have a conventional, scale F-3 with the same drive system, I think, and it is currently pulling two dummy B’s, another dummy A, and five 15" passenger cars. With this consist, at full throttle, it would fly off the curves. The only thing I can think of is the speed control on your units might be the problem. Does it perform the same with the speed control on, and off? Are you running in TMCC, or conventional?
I am glad you did…last night I did some home work found out that the grade was a little steeper than 2.2 %. As a matter of fact I found out things you should not do…
First don’t oil you pass cars wheels thinking you can pull more up a grade… ain’t gonna happen! Did get rid of those annoying squeeks though.
Make sure your plywood is screwed down, even in the temporary areas before you use those plastic trestles. Mine warped and change the grade over time.
Isopropo Alcohol works great to clean up oily track and oil soaked traction tires.
These have TMCC and Legacy and yes I used worse case… set engine to creep, legacy on, no running start (no cheating here). I was able to achieve the 2.2 percent grade but only with A-B-A and 4 Lionel 15 inch aluminum bud cars (slightly heavier than the new plastic ones). This equates to about 21 freight new O scale freight cars. Here is a picture of the temp grade with a pair of E-7’s, that had no problem tackling the grade… and below is a picture of the Pennsy F-3’s as well. They were able to pull a little more than the F-7’s. 4 15 inch cars and two heavywieght pullman cars. Same motor and similar design… go figure?
oops a little out of focus …
J.Daddy, what a shame…they are such nice looking units (per your photos), but apparantly no match for postwar F3s? Mine will easily pull 20 postwar freights on a flat 031 layout. I don’t yet have a grade, but am planning one using the 3 1/2 % lionel postwar trestles.
ps- why are they called F7s? Based on a later prototype?
Runtime: Yes, his Santa Fe’s are F7s, whereas the Pennsy units are F3. The easiest giveaway on the differences are the grills on the sides or flanks of the engines. On the F7, notice how the grill interrupts the red on the warbonnet. These are horizontal louvers. Kind of like window blinds, but they don’t have a pull cord to move them. On the F3 a good portion of the side above the name Pennsylvania, and between the portholes is a chicken wire grill. These style changes were made by EMD to make parts easier to replace or cut costs. The interior changes of the locomotives are in the series of prime mover and horsepower output. F3s rated at 1500 hp, and I think had a 567b prime mover. F7s rated at 1750 hp with a 567c prime mover. I may be off a bit on these numbers. During production runs, upgrades of systems and improvements were made without necessarily changing the series. There was no F5 as a transition. There are plenty of articles and videos you can use as a reference.
Thanks Tim. Re-viewing the photos I see the difference.
I’m always learning stuff on the forum, from the many good folks who post and respond here![bow]
The F3 and the F7 had the same 1500-horsepower 567B engine. It was the F9 that had the 1750-horsepower 567C.
Thanks for the correction, Bob.
Runtime,
Nice set of F-3’s. Always wanted a post war set but could not afford when I was a kid. When I found the F-7’s, fell in love with the rail sounds 5.0… really nice. Just was not ready for the design of only one axle per truck actually doing the pulling power…