When I read that in the Industry News Section of the July 2009 issue of CTT page 22. I was basically astonished…bewildered…discusted…mad…and then disappointed…in that order. An American Icon sold out…(The building portion of the operation)…yes they are still in business in the old building headquarters. Which is still being used for product development and other services. I also remember the deal they struck with MTH. Giving MTH part of the licensing rights to market items bearing the Lionel Logo. So now Lionel can set back and collect royalties. After all in the deal that they struck with MTH, Lionel can dictate to MTH which products they can and cannot market to the public bearing the Lionel Logo.
I just hope that the quality of the products does not decrease, and that the quality control procedures at MTH are performing up to the expected abilities of those who implemented the quality control process. This puts extra expectations on MTH production lines (Which is made in China)? as far as getting product out the door in a timley manner. In addition to the schedule they have with MTH products. Now they have to deal with the products that Lionel gives them the o.k. to produce.
I understand the economy is bad, times are hard and people are losing jobs. I also understand the first thing to go in a budget when times get hard are all of the extra curricular activities (including hobbies). Maybe Lionel had to do this to stay in business. Who is to say, when the time is right they just may decide to pull the Ol’ Steam Engine back out of the roundhouse, Dust her off and let the whistle sing once again. Hopefully that is the direction Lionel decides to go in. After all Lionel was and still is an American Icon…along with Harley Davidson and Ford and Chevorlet.
It really doesn’t matter , they sold out 10 years ago when they moved production to China and the quality decreased back then anyway. The heart & soul of that company, as an American institution was ripped out the day Lionel Trains Inc. became Lionel LLC. They are a shadow of their former selves and those good 'ol days are never coming back.
Lionel terminated their production force (± 325 people) a long time back. We reported the move to China in the May 2001 issue, and they’ve had a few more staff drawdowns since then.
They’ve been changing how they do everything, from the logistics of distribution to product development. It is my understanding that the building had been largely empty for some time, save for parts/repairs, and I believe the repair side has moved to Ohio.
The lionel name will outlast all of us. New owners of the Lionel name will come and go but IMO there will always be electric trains with the Lionel name on them. General Mills / MPC, Richard Kughn, Davis / Wellsprings, and now Guggenheim Capitoil Management, its all Lionel.
Lionel struggled severely throughout the late 90’s with foreign competition and eventually caved in to subcontracting overseas. It was basically do or die. I have a handful of american made collector line engines from the 80’s and early 90’s with magnetraction and pullmors. To this day, they are brutish runners and have seen no more than oil and grease.
The advantage asian toy train contractors had over american was much more than labor rates. They were 10 years ahead of us with digital tooling capabilities (CNC) which is way more efficient then tooling manually. This has changed in the US as digital tooling technology has become standard in the US. I would not be surprised to see some of the production shift back to the US as it has with other products in the near future.
Lionel has also started moving a good bit of their administrative staff to New York, which, it’s worth mentioning, is where it all started. Thus, I personally wouldn’t be too upset about the move.
Im not upset about them moving from one state or another, I dunno, I was thinking of an age/era where times were simpler. When Jukeboxs and leather jackets and burgers and fries and 57 chevys ruled the streets. To me Lionel was more then just toy (model trains), Lionel helped signify these times, it’s just sad to see it happen. I know that era has been long gone but this in my opnion, kinda puts a ending to it…
“It really doesn’t matter , they sold out 10 years ago when they moved production to China and the quality decreased back then anyway.”
I have L-T-I stuff and I have new stuff. The value for the dollar is far better today than it was then. Take a 1990’s era Michigan-Built Berkshire just as a for-instance:
The Santa Fe (2-8-2) used the old Berk tooling, PullMor motor, RailSounds 1, and and e-unit.
MSRP? $999.95! [:O]
Today, what will around a $1,000 buy? A new HUGE steamer with RailSounds 5.0, sychronized fan-driven smoke, Legacy, Cruise, and detail beyond your fondest wishes?
Or just take a traditional GG-1. For less than what a Chesterfield GG-1 cost, you can now get the GG-1(with horn & bell) and three Irvington Cars in original style boxes and wrap.
If you want to get honked off about something, I’d suggest looking at Michigan’s auto industry and labor market. It’s about to sell us all down the river.
I think the financial “guru’s” beat them to the punch[:(].
BTW, and back on topic, Lionel used overseas engineering to develop their designs and make tools to make the trains up to the start of WW 2 (Societa Meccanica La Precisa, Naples, Italy). While the stamping, casting, painting, assembly were done here, the technical work was all imported.
A private buseiness main goal is to make MONEY and they will do what they have to accomplish that goal or they won’t be in business very long. Aka (fill in the blank) is in business to make money, not dishwahers/cars/computers/TV’s/toy trains/services. They are supposed to make money by manufacturing/selling “stuff”. When they start making money but not actually selling stuff (aka fraud) or when they stop making money while trying to sell stuff bad things tend to happen, sometimes quite quickly.
Lionel moved building kits and accessories to Macu or Taiwan in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s.
Mike Wolf tried to get Lionel to outsource an O Scale model of the GE 40CW-8 in the 1990’s, but the Lionel managment declined to take him up on that offer.
Lionel started to have the new scale diesel-electric locomotives produced in China in 1999.
The outsourcing away from North America was one segment of the production line at a time, until it was all moved to China.
What matters to me is quality. I would vastly prefer American production, American materials and American workers. The truth is, however, if the trains are quality items and work properly out of the box, I will be satisfied. eliot
I agree with scherbear57. It has much to do with quality and design intergrity. If it works properly out of the box and can do perform multiple functions hopefully more than pw equipment did since it year 2009, then I’d be a big fan. Lionel is just a cheesy brand without these two things.
I don’t get mushy about lionel after the qc issues I’ve had since buying multiple new sets from them over the past 18 months. They leave me today with the same impression I had as a teenager in the mid 70’s running pw 2-6-4 on a super o setup. Not much more than expensive toy trains with issues.