Not to my knowledge.
This conversation/thread has been interesting. IMHO
- AC locoās canāt run on DC. Just as visa versa.
- I noted āShadedā relay. I wonder how that works?
- The earlier āpictorialā wiring diagram was good, but when studying it I decided I will have to redraw it to an elecrical schematic to understand.
- The instruction/manual reprint is so small, but I will endeavor to enlarge it for my learning purposes.
- Two more interesting ( 2 me) points on AC locos.
a. The reversing āswitchā (I think it is called a pendulum switch)
b. I worked on a figure 8, two train operation. On stops until cleared for the diamond. They can run independently of any human intervention. Slick. How can they? A current relay of one train signals stop for the other. And they go, round and round, never colliding. - Reference the reversing relay, AC motors can be reversed in direction of rotation due to how they are wired. That is NOT to say reverse the power input leads as is the case of DC motors. In single phase AC motors this is done several different ways.
- Comments appreciated. regards mike endmrw0523251518
Elā¦Iām back. Can you tell me what terminals A, B, C, U are connected to? Reference your diagram. Thanks mike endmrw0523251534
Just for clarification about AC motors running on DC - the motors used in older O gauge AC powered trains are typically a āUniversalā motor with a field winding, armature winding, and commutator. They will run on AC or DC. The direction of operation is reversed by reversing the polarity of the two windings in relation to each other - that is what the E-unit does. Here are a couple of webpages that can explain the operation of universal motors:
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James, you are dead on. Guess what, Iāve done that before. When building a fence on property with no AC, Iāve used the automobile electric system. Skil saw was universal. The regulator in auto was disabled and rpm of engine provided higher DC voltage. I ferget dat Iād dun it myself. LOL. Thanks for the reminder and a quick read of universal motors.
BTW Do you know what the āpendulumā / solenoid / reversal mechanism was called. Clever idea and I wanted to use it for DYI turnout controls (only one button = switch to control a turnout. Activate = switch turnout, activate again and reverse of turnout happens. Thanks/regards/mike endmrw0523251812
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The E-unit, the reverse unit, or in modern locos itās termed a reverse board (nice new circuitry).
1988, circuit boards/E unitā¦nice for present day. Since this forum is Classic Toy Trains and talks about old equipment, Iām asking. (I had a Marx 027 train set.) I saw the reverse mechanism. It was real simple. Not electronic. Mechanical.
Anyone here know the name for it? I can build one DIY. What was it called? Thanks endmrw0523252013
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Oh yes, itās still called an E-unit or a reverse unit. Iāve got three locomotives equipped with E-units, the rest are newer locos with circuit boards.
A solenoid with a ratchet and pawl assembly to alternate the flow of current to the motor via a drum with varying arrangement of electrical contacts and āfingersā.
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Vocabulary increased. E-unit = reverser. Got it.
- Question: Does this unit have a coil (electromagnet) that pulls a plunger upward and therefore causes an off center arm to rotate into the opposite direction. Yet when repeated (power off then on) it will rotate the arm in the other opposite direction. Each direction will make different electrical connections for fwd or rev.
- I have inquired of this item (E-unit) and someone refered to it as a pendulum. i.e. plunger does have a loose extention that is like a pendulum.
- Does #1 make sense? Are we talking about the same thing? It sure is a clever idea. Thanks mike endmrw0523251047
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Rob, could you inform what each terminal is attached to? I am attempting to make a schematic. That would help alot. Although I am studying it try and figure it out. endmrw0524251952
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Yes, it does use a coil with a metal plungerāthereby making it a solenoid. I think that the three-position ones use a drum while the two position ones use the off center arm. Iāve read about certain kinds of E-units referred to as pendulums, but I havenāt seen anything else about them.
Yes, I do think we are talking about the same thing. 
The pendulum reverse was a large somewhat clunky mechanism fitted in Lionel Standard Gauge locomotives. The solenoid would yank the pendulum over to one side thereby changing the polarity of the motor. IVES electronic sequence reverse mechanism was vastly superior and J. L. Cowen was all too eager to snap up the patents when IVES went into bankruptcy receivership in 1929. (American Flyer wanted IVES steam locomotive designs which were better proportioned.)
The E-unit:
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Looking at Figure 1, the āterminalsā labeled (from top to bottom) C, B, A, and U are the binding posts on the transformer (ie, the terminals one uses to hook up power to trains and accessories). Figure 1 is an example wiring diagram showing the wiring for transformers such as those it lists in the caption. Lionel issued wiring diagrams/schematics for most of its transformers. If you name the transformer model you want a wiring schematic for, me or another user can easily set you up with the documentation Lionel put out for that transformer.
-El
The terminals shown, (left to right, top to bottom) C, B, A, F, E, and D are the transformerās binding posts. Like with the 1032/1033 diagram shown on the page regarding whistle controls, these terminals are the ones you hook wires to on the outside of the transformer, to connect up track power and accessories.
-El
Itās not a Type R, but the plate mounted on the side of this Type K show how many wiring options were possible with Lionel Multivolt Transformers.
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El/Becky/1988:
You guys are generous to share what information you have.
In all of this inquiry, overlooked on my part was a CLOSE examination of the description of āMulti-Control Transformersā. From El ā¦Boo Boo for me ā¦Multi = run two trainsā¦NOPEā¦My Bad. This detailed description was the ātricksā they used to activate, then hold the whistle relay. In all of this detail, twice there is mention of REVERSING the train. And in that, is mention of the E-unit, which is the āelusiveā item Iām trying to find.
Becky has her type E-unit excellently pictured, but it is more complicated than my cheaper Marx product was. But of interest is the picture showing different voltages: Different taps = different voltages. Okay but would this choice A-D = 17 vac. this voltage is connected to outside and middle rail and would move the train. Is there no variation of voltage to provide a speed control of fast/slow?
1988 is on to something when he mentioned 3 position but your mention of a two position seems to fit my description. Beckyās could well be two position, but more complicated. Wish I had kept the old engine, only have a caboose but that Marx type coupler was interesting. Got into HO and THEN the 027 was of no interest. This darn thing I saw (67 years ago) was so simple. I might have to build one to demonstrate. Course you guys are so into this stuff, surely someone has seen the type I had back then. regards mike endmrw0526250027
What you have to remember about early Multivolt Transformers is that there were fixed voltage taps on top with spacers in between. They look like ābuttonsā or simple flat circles that are each wired separately to the core. If you look at my most recent photo you can see the metal taps on the top plate and the contact piece on the underside of the throttle lever. Note also that on the K the power starts at a higher level, 17 volts, which is why I use the rheostat. It lets me throttle up from zero to 25 volts instead of having the train slam into motion from a standstill.
This arrangement was refined by the ādial typeā transformers like the R, V and Z and later āknobā and āhandleā transformers (LW, KW, ZW) that gave the operator control from zero to 25 volts without the need for the graduated steps. Instead of having to wire taps individually, the lever has a roller that can sweep across the core to give you any power level you want.
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The name āE-Unitā was a trademark of sorts, of Lionelās reversing unit. āE-Unitā was short for āElectronic Reversing Unitā. At first Lionel used what is often called the āPendulumā reverse unit, which had a contact piece that was rocked side to side by a solenoid with a finger that would toggle it- or, put another way, the solenoid would energize, and pull up the āfingerā, which would catch the āpendulumā contact, and swing it to one side or the other, to change the direction the motor would run.
Later, Lionel switched to the āthree positionā E-Unit, which is what Becky (Pennytrains) shared the helpful diagram for. The 3-position unit operates by indexing a rotating drum with contacts on it. Contact fingers wipe the drum contacts. Each time the unit recieves power, it indexes the drum 1/8 of a full revolution. Each time the drum is indexed, the position is changed- the cycle of that change is forward, neutral, reverse, neutral, and repeat.
Marxās reversing unit is a āpendulumā style unit. Marx themselves never called it an āE-Unitā because that was Lionelās marketing term for their device, but the general idea is the same. It automatically reverses the direction of the train each time it receives power. A rocking contact that moves to one side or the other, being toggled by a solenoid. A set of contact fingers touch the rocking contact, and depending which way the rocking contact is facing, the motor will run forward or reverse.
-El
If anything is needed information wise, you and your buddies are it. However to understand things, Iām a bit confused with your quote. i.e. see bold print
Completely understand the use of a rheostat to have gradual acceleration. But it would seem top voltage would be 17vac and not 25. Just curious. I notice A-F = 21 vac and the two below ā¦I canāt read (steep angle to view), but I would guess they continue to maybe 25 vac)
Thanks for the two pictures. By the way the one showing your operating controls is interesting in that there is so much more than a transformer. My next post will be what I was looking for (my E type reverser. And since it is described there, I wonāt have to build a working model. Although today I made sketches of how I would build it. regards mike endmrw0526252121