I am trying to decide whether to use #6 and #8 Peco Code 83 Insulfrog or Electrofrog turnouts on my HO layout. My initial idea was to go with Insulfrogs as the whole electrical thing boggles my mind and it seemed ‘easier’.
However, I seem to be reading a lot about the need to juice the frog for reliable operation???
My roster will be ‘modern’ diesels (mainly SD40s, GP35s, GP40-2s, SD60s and ES44ACs) with some SW1500s. Although a small Trackmobile would be nice for switching.
I was planning on using Caboose Industries manual ground throws and wasn’t initially planning on switch machines (mainly due to my lack of electrical ability).
So I guess the big question here is can I ‘get away’ with dead frogs (Insulfrogs) or is the prevailing wisdom to juice the frog (Electrofrogs)?
My feeling is that if you are going to run those types of Locos then you would be ok with insulfrogs as they wont have problems picking up power with those truck configuration going over the frogs…If you run smaller switchers like 0-6-0 over them then you may get stalling issues then a juicer might be needed
With your manual ground throws… go for it if you can reach them all .
From what I have read over several years on the forum your main roster will run just fine over the insulfrog turnouts. However, your Trackmobile might not be so happy.
My suggestion would be to figure out exactly where the Trackmobile will be likely to run and use powered frogs on those routes, but save yourself some effort and use insulfrogs on the rest of the layout.
Personally I am into “critters” and other assorted 4 or 6 wheeled power so I will install powered frogs on all turnouts (no layout yet) so I can play with my toys wherever I like.
Dave’s solution for the Trackmobile is a good one. But be sure you won’t put anything else similar elsewhaere. The live frogs are just so much better for any light-footed short wheelbase model. You’ll be kicking yourself if yhou don’t go with them where they’re needed.
Where it’s only the lashups of big diesels, no problem, they’ll plow right through.
Most locos can negotiate #6 turnouts with dead frogs, but #8 turnouts can be more problematic because of the size of the frog.
You can always power a dead frog with a frog juicer.
So, typically, Insulfrogs are the way to go.
But, if you want or need live frogs, don’t let Electrofrog turnouts scare you. Just add gaps or insulated rail joiners on the two inside rails of the turnout beyond the frog.
Insulfrog and Electrofrog are both power routing so take that into account as well when adding feeders.
In your life as a model railroader, you will eventually have to deal with wiring far more complicated than powering frogs. And, one thing you’ll discover is that it’s a lot easier to wire anything while it’s still on your bench, before you put it on the layout and make access much more difficult.
Wire the frog. You will not regret it. If nothing else, at least connect a wire to the frog and let it dangle below your layout. (I always use green wires for frogs, because color-coding your wires makes it easier to understand your wiring years later, and what better color than green?) Caboose makes a ground throw with contacts. Buy those, and once again run the wires and let them hang below the layout. Then, when you have the first signs of frog trouble, you can simply connect the wires and ask yourself “Why didn’t I do that in the first place? That was simple.”
I have some Peco Code 100 turnouts. As I recall, they have plastic frogs. These are short turnouts, about #4 and they’re a pretty close match for Atlas snap-switches in that regard. Do the longer ones have metal frogs?
I agree with Mr.B on this one. put the wire in, whether you need it or not.
Once you understand the wiring principle’s. In fact power routing turnouts, the points can be used to power the frogs. That’s the old fashion way used year’s ago, DC/DCC.
I ran a SW8 Walthers switcher and one of the P2K 0-6-0 switchers over all my insulfrog Pecos on my previous layout. They never lost a beat. However, the SW8 would stall at every turnout until I swapped out one of its axles, the one with the traction tire set, with an all-metal tire set provided to me free from Walthers as sson as I contacted them and complained about the locmotive’s performance. That good will evaporated within the year, and they no longer ship replacement metal tire sets to customers. However, as soon as all four axles had metal tires and wipers, my provlems vanished. I would guess that, if your smallest locos have no traction tires, they’ll do just fine on the insulfrogs. The only problem would be the smallest one you mention, but I really have no experience with them.
Basically, yes. Since the #8 Insulfrog turnout will have a larger frog there will be a bigger “dead spot” in the track.
Also, (regarding terminology) don’t use “powered turnouts” as if it were synonomous with “powered frog”. A “powered turnout” can mean that a turnout is controlled by an electronic switch machine. (and I don’t think that’s what you are asking!)
On our club layout, we have a lot of Atlas #8 turnouts with unpwered frogs and we have no problems with stalling with any 4 or 6 axle diesels (as long as they have all-wheel pick ups) and modern steamers.
It really comes down to a choice between a powered frog (Electrofrog) and a dead (Insulfrog) but isolated frog. Which is more important to you?
Jay makes a good point that as long as both trucks on a loco are powered, a dead frog should pose no problem.
On the other hand, adding gaps (or insulated rail joiners) to an Electrofrog turnout is no big deal. You simply gap the inner two rails beyond the frog, as shown in Ja Bear’s diagram.
One compromise is to use the Insulfrogs and if the dead frog causes a loco to stall, then you could add a frog juicer or simply hot wire the frog.
In any event, recall that both the Insulfrog and the Electrofrog are power routing turnouts. Since you are operating in DCC, you will want to add feeder wires to all three ends of every Peco turnout.
So is it possible to use Electrofrog turnouts and add insulated rain joiners and feeder wires where needed and just not power the frog. Or MUST the frog be powered?
My turnouts are 100% live frog types, for a very simple reason. I hand-lay them using raw rail soldered together. Building a dead frog is a thundering PITA!
Since I run MU cars with one short wheelbase truck picking up from each rail, short wheelbase teakettle tanks and other such abbreviated rail contact vehicles, dead frogs are a non-starter. Also, EVERYTHING that moves my points has a set of electrical contacts to assure proper frog power.
The circuit is dead simple - one wire from each stock rail to one fixed contact, and one wire to the moveable contact that can touch either, but not both at the same time. My manual point movers are electrical SPDT switches, while my Rix and KTM 2-coil machines have dedicated contacts. I understand that Tortoise machines also have contacts, but have yet to use one.
