Locomotive Black Boxes

Do locomotives have black boxes similar to those on sophisticated aircraft? If so, where are they located? Also, what data do they capture?

Yes, locomotives have black (actually orange) boxes. These event recorders, as they are formally known, record speed, throttle/dynamic brake positions, air brake pressures, horn use. There’s also outward and inward facing camera recorders. They used to be separate units but may be integrated on the newer recorders.

All this info can be downloaded by wire to a manager’s device, downloaded when passing locations equipped with wireless download capabilities, or downloaded in real time at any time or any location.

The third option as mostly replaced the former two for us. When anything happens, such as an undesired emergency application, our Operating Practices Command Center can normally remotely check the how the train was being handled at the time of the incident. And how the train had been handled up to that point.

Along with event recorders for operation, they can remotely view mechanical operation and fault logs for the newer engines. They can’t remotely reset faults but can tell you what and how to reset them. Or tell you that the engine isn’t going to work anymore.

Jeff

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Thanks for the insight.

If an engineer makes a mistake in operating his or her train that is captured by the event recorders, is he/she counseled on how to avoid the mistake in the future, or is he/she subject to disciplinary action?

When I was still working at CSX. A train crew was discovered by Event Recorder data to have exceeded the speed limit in a Yard Limit segment of ‘Main Track’ in Dark Territory.

The track in question had the ETT specifying the Maximum for the track at 20 MPH, however the track was covered by Yard Limit rules and that allowed a maximum of 10 MPH.

I believe the crew got 5 days unanticipated 'vacation for doing the 20 MPH.

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thank you that is interesting I had no idea.

As noted, the event recorder can be used for an “unannounced test.” Don’t need a “Weed Weasel…”

Still need a weed weasel to set up and observe Restricted Speed compliance on Main Track situations.

I give up! What is a weed weasel?

It is a RR compliance officer (i.e. DSLE, Road Foreman, etc.) who observes the crew surreptitiously (from some weeds, for example) looking for rules violations. So if you hide “in the weeds” and write someone up for a violation, you are a “weed weasel” in the employee’s eyes.

All railroads under FRA jurisdiction need to do these sorts of observations periodically and keep records.

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As the saying goes –
You learn something new each day

David

Sounds like Tommy DeVito in Goodfellas. :rofl:

Rich

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Yes. If a download shows train handling that doesn’t follow the company standards, an engineer can be “coached” (The term used for minor violations. It doesn’t appear on records has discipline, but too many coachings for the same offense can be elevated in the disciplinary process. Too many for the same thing could lead to being charged with insubordination for failure to comply with instructions/rules, etc.)

Besides discipline, a download could lead to remedial training for the engineer. In that case, an engineer has to ride with another engineer for a set period of time or trips and then pass a requalifying ride.

There was an engineer who had a break-in-two event. The download cleared him of causing the event. However, they also looked over the “tape” for the time prior to the event. (Over the years as technology of the boxes as changed, the recording times have gotten longer. I think they now record for 72 hours until it starts recording over previous recordings. It’s happened that an engineer received a nastygram because of an incident by another engineer gave them the opportunity to review the entire tape.) They didn’t like what they saw and placed him in remedial training. What he had done is to run the train like he had been taught by the old heads that trained him. Sometimes the old ways of running conflict with the new ways, often devised on a simulator by those who last ran real trains when 9000 ft was a big train.

Jeff

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On trains in PTC territory, PTC won’t let you run past an absolute stop signal, be more than a few miles over the maximum speed in effect for conditions. It enforces restricted speed, but can’t stop a train within restricted speed limits short of a red flag or train/car. It will ask how a switch is lined when the train is within 400 feet of it. Not responding would initiate a brake application.

When PTC gives a braking enforcement, it immediately sends a notification to a designated manager. Upon tying up the job, a report must be made why you received a penalty enforcement. If the reason is legitimate, nothing more will come of it. Most enforcements are because a signal drops unexpectedly with the train too close to it. I’ve had that happen a few times. If you aren’t too close, PTC just initiates a full service penalty application. If you are too close, PTC initiates an emergency application.

Most of our stop tests, I think our carrier requires an engineer at least two per year, are done virtually. Our Operating Practices Command Center (OPCC) has the dispatcher hold an absolute signal at stop. OPCC watches remotely, including inward facing camera, how the train is run and the crew is reacting. Most actual human field testing now seems to be when entering or switching in yards, where managers are headquartered.

Jeff

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Historically, event recorders can be traced back to the Loco-Valve-Pilot of the late '30s or 1940s. The New York Central was a big user of the Valve Pilot. One of its features was a recording tape of the speed and valve gear setting. Here’s one representation of the tape:

Valve Pilot tape by Edmund, on Flickr

Interesting just how far back the railroads were looking at ways of measuring and recording performance. The top portion of the indicator contains the tape in a sealed chamber:

Valve_Pilot_crop_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

Later the technology was adopted by the Barco Corp. and the Barco Speed Recorder was a forerunner of today’s electronic recording devices.

Regards, Ed

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Flaman had event recorders decades before Valve Pilot – just without matching-needles cutoff advice.

One notable installation was on the first Erie 0-8-8-0s as derived from Old Maud practice. Those LP cylinders were so big, and flopped so badly with the engine drifting, that there was a hard ‘Vne’ for light or drifting moves… enforced by a fancy French Flaman recorder on each engine installed to rat out anyone who exceeded the very slow limit. (Ed will know precisely what it was…)

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Quite fascinating!

Those low pressure cylinders on the ERIE L-1s were 28 x 28 inches. While drifting they act like huge compressors. Imagine the volume of gas they passed. I wonder if the throttle had to be kept cracked just a bit to keep lubrication and prevent cinders from being sucked into the exhaust nozzle? Or was there a drifting valve arrangement?

Regards, Ed

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90% of the time, the “event recorders” or “fault loggers” are used to chase away lawsuits, along with detailed maintenance records. There is usually a rush to use this data to indemnify the human factor as opposed to the equipment state. Failure of the human factor is pointed to…“They were certified”

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In the world of increasing train sizes - event recorders CAN also be used to devise correct train handling procedures as train sizes increase from one mile in length to two miles and on the three miles and even longer.

The topography that trains operate upon are rarely ‘static’ - gradient changes exist virtually every 100 feet along any route - grade differences create slack action within the trains that traverse the routes. The Engineers job is to get his train - no matter its size or makeup - from origin to destination SAFELY using whatever tools that may be provided on the train (head end power only, distributed power in one or more locations) using both traction power and dynamic braking.

While preliminary ‘runs’ may be mapped out on one or more of the various simulators that are available - reality beats simulation when it comes to defining appropriate train handling instructions.

I worked the B&O Operator’s position at Newton Falls, OH. About 100 yards West of the tower there was a maybe 100 foot sag in the steady near level grade through the area. If a train was ‘drifted’ through the sag, more often than not it would get a broken knuckle with the changes in slack action at the train passed over the sag. If the train was under maximum accelerative power through the sag, the slack remained stretched and no broken knuckles.

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