When did the manufacturers change from having the control stands beside the engineer to the desktop consoles now in use? What model locos?
For EMD it was the 60 series wide cabs. GE did it with the -8 wide cab models.
Now both manufacturers are goind back to the AAR control stand but with electronic brake controls and computer screen data panels with all the cab electronics, DPU and EOT data.
Desktops!
Well I fought 'em for so long child, makes my shoulders so sore!!!
I’ve always thought that the people who thought desktop controls were a good idea and sold this bill of goods to the manufacturers were people who spent their days sitting at a desk and hadn’t spent any time running a locomotive. Two things I’m grateful for is that NS never embraced these abortions and that the trend seems to be over.
I was around when it happened on Conrail and remember some of the history and discussion.
There was a general push to try to improve locomotive cabs - for a whole bunch of reasons. Noise level, toilet maintenance, cab electronics, better cab seating and crew comfort were some of the biggies. Yes, you read right. Crew comfort. The guy in the Mechanical Dept who was doing most of the liason work between the builders and the unions was a 3rd generation RRer who was an ex-loco engineer. He was genuinely interested in the well being of the crew.
Desktop style controllers were all the rage in Europe, and it was felt they were way ahead of us, so it was worth a look. GE took their B40-8 demo, 808, and designed and built a new cab for it, and renumbered it 809. Conrail then had GE run it to Collinwood and invited the union general and local chairmen to have a look while it. They all thought it was marvelous and said “yes, we want this for our men” - or something like that. So, away we went! Everyone thought it was just great.
Only after a bunch of them started running around in revenue service, did the shortcomings become apparent and only recently has the desktop controller been given up as an advancement that wasn’t. It would have been so much easier an cheaper to have just stayed with the old “clean cab” control stand in the first place.
Were the shortcomings more Ergonomic or mechanical? (ie, reliability? )
There were a few reliability problems at first, but primarily, they were ergonomic - but it was felt that they could be addressed. Apparently, they weren’t/couldn’t.
I have two limited frames of experience on this -
My RailDriver console (toy though it may be) is great, considering that I’m always facing the screen. Methinks that if you are running a locomotive where you are always facing the front, it’s probably an OK thing.
My limited time at the controls of a real locomotive also involved running in “reverse.” The traditional stand in that ALCO made it relatively easy. Doing it with a console would have been a real pain in the…
From my point of view, in freight railroading it’s the wrong tool for the job that is being asked of it. For an over-the-road passenger locomotive (a prime use in Europe), it’s another story.
The problem that I found was there are/were alot of push buttons (ie, the bell, horn, sanders,etc…) after so much use they would break, or the top of the button would be missing and your left trying to push a diode.
The underside of most desktops is at an angle / and the comfort level is nil, you either have no room for your knees if you’re taller than most or you find yourself slouching or sitting sideways, slouching puts you too far away from the controls and sideways gets old real quick. Also, I don’t like the single lever for both dynamic and power use and I don’t like the brake handles, I just don’t like them, period, after the novelty wore off after running one one trip, I learned to hate them with a passion. Very, very uncomfortable units to operate for an engineer, but I’m sure someone on here will pipe up and tell how great they are. I think it’s safe to say that person would be in the minority.
Engineers I’ve spoken to don’t like the desktop controls at all. It does seem that the “ergonomic” designers were people that sit behinds desks for a living. My opinion is that the designers were influenced by Europeon locomotives. Desktop controls are quite common with our friends across the big pond. One thing that puzzles me from the various photos I’ve seen: the desktops have a downward slope on the underside. Was any consideration given to the guys that are over 6 feet tall? Seems like a “knee-knocking” situation.
In one of the cab rides I enjoyed during 1981, I actually sat in the engineer’s seat when we were stopped (got the photos to prove it). It was an SCL/L&N GP38-2. Having the controls to your left really felt comfortable and unique. Appearancewise, the AAR control stand gave the impression of muscle and speed.
Desktops are OK (not great) if you’re traveling in the direction the desktop points, and you can actually fit under the desk.
They are a giant pain in the rear when you have to run backwards. The AAR control stand is much easier to run bi-directionally with.
What I really dislike, are the multi-function displays. Call me old-fashion, but I much prefer the old analog gauges.
Nick
One thing that apparently was missed in bringing desktop controls to North American locomotives was the fact that most European locomotives are doublecabs and roadswitcher designs are rare. In fairness to the designers, they may have made the assumption that European railroading was similar in practice to North American railroading.
I always seem to have trouble getting just one notch , seems I’m grabbing 3 or 4 at a time !!
Your “opinion” about European influence is fact!
The knee-knocker is because the controller is actually same guts in the one used in the AAR control stand turned sideways. There is mechanical interlock between throttle and reverser.
Another factor I didn’t mention was the desire to clean up the control stand. With EOT, radio, Select-a-Power and other add-on junk, we had created a metal brick wall between the engineer and conductor. (which meant the engineer lost sight of his grade indicator.)
And this is a bad thing? 
But you can still hear him snoring. [8D]
Nick
Actually they began on the CN SD50F’s, in 1985.
Are there any pictures of these new, new control stands.
I’ve seen photos of the newer AAR control stands on www.railpictures.net .
I dowloaded at least 4 of them, but sorry to say, I don’t have the photo numbers. I believe most of these these were in Canadian locomotives but I remember that one shot was in a NS unit (or at least that’s what the caption listed). The new AAR stands look cool!