With Bowser’s unfortunate discontinuation of production for all locomotive kits [:'(], I’m finding that I will likely be in the market for steam locomotive “kit” bashing and/or scratchbuilding supplies to flesh out my meagre fleet of a K4 and B6…
I imagine that “kit” bashing shouldn’t be that hard → in it’s simplest form, it should be nothing more than correcting the firebox, and other non-PRR details… but it can obviously only get me so far.
On the other hand scratchbuilding will be a much more labour-intensive process, though I’m not bound to using only “in production” models as my base from which to begin. The hardest part of scratchbuilding (in my opinion) will be finding accurate drawings from whence to build said locomotive. After that the only “hard part” will be getting the sub-assemblies together from whence the locomotive will be built as a “kit”.
Before I get in too far over my head, the basic components I think I’ll need are below (assumed suppliers are in parenthesis):
Wheels
Pilot (NWSL?)
Drivers (dunno)
Trailing truck (NWSL?)
Frame, boiler cab, etc → to be made from suitable materials (brass,styrene, etc)
Motor & Gearing (NWSL)
Will also (obviously) need paint, decals, and various taps, drills, files, etc. that I probably already have on hand, so I’m not bothering to list that stuff out.
Is there anything glaringly obvious that I’m overlooking?
Actually, Bowser has a pretty large parts inventory at present. And for parts for which there is sufficient demand and they have the molds, they will re-run as needed. As an example, I just received a Bowser e-mail with a listing of MDC and Mantua parts they have on hand. When I odered (by telephone) the super-detail kit for the Cary conversion for the Mantua General and the MDC Shay, I was informed both were out of stock. However, they expected to be doing another run for the MDC Shay due to the frequency of requests.
Greenway is another good source of parts. PSC catalogs are worth buying, and most items in them are still obtainable. Yardbird Trains (I think I got that right) is a good source for all things Mantua. River City sells Roundhouse parts and kits made up from parts on eBay. “Junkers” from eBay are also a useful source of parts.
Dan, they may or may not have ALL the parts to build an E6, in fact when they announced they would be stopping the steam loco kits, they said they would sell those parts until gone.
BUT, they still make and sell their Cal Scale line of detail parts. And, as Fred mentioned there is Greenway and PSC.
Here is a simple example of a RTR bash using parts from PSC:
The new trailing truck is a PSC piece, sold years ago by Kemtron, still in production at PSC. I purchased 4 of these for this project just 6-8 months ago.
There are lots of parts out there, you just have to look.
Call on the phone. Bowser has knowledgeable folks who answer telephone calls. They can tell you what they have and don’t have, and what the prognosis is for follow-on production of the don’t have. They still had one Cary Mantua General Pittsburgh General conversion boiler when I called. I bought it on the spot.
I have found e-mail to be a waste of time when chasing out-of-production items, and possible/practical substitutions. E-mail requires too many back-and-forths that are much more easily taken care of in person (best) or a live voice (2nd best). I try to time my calls for a time of day that is not likely too busy for the manufacturer/dealer/LHS I am calling. For example, I don’t call on Saturdays in the Fall. When I make the call, I have the appropriate web sites called up on my computer screen as another aid to understanding what I am being told.
Places like Bowser prefer the phone calls because I can make the decision on what to buy on the spot, based on what they are telling me. So providing the necessary information and taking the order are handled in one transaction. Web site maintenance and updates and e-mail responses are the lowest priority for the limited work force at our small but essential vendors.
point taken… still sent them an email to see what’s going on, since they’re closed til monday…
detail parts are great and all, but i’m going to need a boiler and all the other stuff to put them on… so I’m not sure which way you guys are pointing me… buy a loco and modify that base, or start with a pile of brass and go from there?
That’s really your choice, depending on your preference and aptitude. I’ve always chosen the modification route, but I’m seriously thinking about a scratchbuild (I’d like a 4-4-0 in HOn3, but will probably start with a Class A Climax to learn from). The scratchbuild requires a lot more planning than a modification. How are you going to make the frame - from C channel stock or from side pieces with spacers? Are you using Proto87 or NMRA driver treads? If NMRA, are you widening the cylinder blocks or drilling the cylinders off center for the wider-than-scale drivers? Will you have to lengthen the wheel base of the pony truck to clear the cylinders on sharp curves? Where do you plan to put the motor? - determines what type of gearbox you will use.
If you are contemplating the scratchbuild, I would buy an article set on scratch building HO locomotives from brass. Model Railroader typically published a multi-part article series on scratch building about once a decade in the '70s, '80s, and '90s. These were republished in some of the Kalmbach books, and might also be available in their .pdf series.
Based on my reading and experiences, a decent drill press is the minimum in machining tools. A vertical milling machine would be next. I don’t know about the lathe - it’s a great tool, but it seems that being proficient in its use is a hobby in and of itself.
Mantua made a lot of very good running steamers which can be kitbashed to match a lot of different prototypes. They still turn up at train shows for very reasonable prices.
Unless you’re looking for unusual locomotives or really want to explore scratchbuilding, I’d suggest starting with readily-available models, then modifying them to more closely match your chosen prototype. Many of the common wheel arrangements are available in kit or r-t-r form, and you may be able to modify a boiler and/or cab from another loco to suit your needs. If you’re modelling Pennsy, for example, you could get a good start on an L-1 with any suitable Mikado’s running gear, and the cab/boiler assembly from a Bachmann K-4. Bachmann sells many of the separate parts used in their locos - I have five Consolidation boilers sitting on my workbench, left over 'cause they came with the five cabs which I needed. [(-D]
Also, don’t overlook older brass models of your chosen prototypes: they can often be had at bargain prices. With new details from PSC and Cal-Scale, and a new motor and gearbox from NWSL, you could create a well-running and accurate model at a reasonable cost and still get the enjoyment of doing much of the work.
Like the real CNR, I rebuilt this old Akane USRA 2-10-2 into a model of a Canadian National T-3-a:
I figured on using a piece of bar stock for the frame, with a cover plate on the bottom (a la Mantua/Bowser). There might be a better way, but I’m just looking at possibilities at this point.
NMRA treads, everything else I have is/will be built to NMRA specs… Maybe at a later date (OK, likely “last in the lifetime” layout) I’ll go for proto87
Hadn’t thought of the cylinders bing an issue – the Bowser and Mantua locos I have are drilled on-centre. Never thought that the cylinders were wider than scale… now I have to check this [:)]
define “sharp”? At present, my layout design calls for nothing smaller than 26" curves. This layout likely won’t survive moving out of the apartment I currently inhabit, and as such will be built in stages (the first being the engine terminal).
Figured the motor would go under the boiler shell, towards the cab (similar to the Bowser/Mantua locos I already have)
Yeah, I’ve got the 199x “scratchbuild a steam locomotive” series somewhere. If I can’t find it, I did find the reprints of the a
Scratch-building can be rewarding if you’re successful, but disappointing and bitter if you fail to think it out. Much of what comes on an engine, even a cheap one, is taken for granted until you have to do it yourself. Rivets come in different sizes, and must be spaced precisely. This is generally seen on smokeboxes and tenders. Boilers can be interesting as well, unless you are just looking at straight boilers. Frames must be accurate to keep the the siderods from binding and the drive system to even work. Brass can be interesting to work with, since work hardening is an issue, and cutting a lot of precise parts requires more than just tin snips.
I’m not saying don’t do it, I am saying to be prepared. Definately go for a simple project before trying to make an Allegheny. Sometimes, a little bigger helps, particullarly when trying to fit drives in, but the planning goes a long way there.
Want to try my hand at scratchbuilding a locomotive. I work at a railroad museum where we’re working on restoring an ALCO RS3 and (hopefully) soon we can get started on our steam locomotive (ex GTW 4070, for those of you who want to know [:D][tup]). Have a light mike sitting in a box here somewhere that will (eventually) go under revision to be a match for the 4070.
Never considered that manufacturers might sell the “major” parts separately… might just have to sideline the 4070 project and wait til I can liberate another mike
and where might I find these “bargain” brass locos? I apparently can only find the ones that cost $500+ [tdn]
and thanks to everyone for your suggestions so far, you’ve been answering a lot of the "
I’m in the same boat. I’d echo what others have said above. Greenway Brass is a good source of drivers and detail items. PSC’s catalog has a lot of other items, including valve gear items, and I’ve purchased a few “loose” parts from Bowser as well.
Ironically, if you’re going to do scratchbuilding, I’ve found my best source of materials; the local hardware store. For some odd reason, all three hardware stores in my smallish town care a variety of brass, wood, steel, and copper bar and channel stock. Styrene? I buy the blank sheets they have for yard sale signs, etc. The selection of basic materials is much better than the LHS, which is 30 miles away, and much cheaper too.
As for rivets, maybe look to Archer rivets, I think it is. Motors and gearing for me is NWSL, eBay, or the auto parts store.
I was also going to mention the Archer rivets: http://www.archertransfers.com/ The H0 rivets are on page 4 and 5 of their downloadable pdf catalog. These are very clever 3 dimensional epoxy rivets on decal film you apply directly on the brass or plastic (before painting) and are available in most of the common patterns and sizes you would find on locos and cars.
If you’ve never done either a kitbash or scratchbuild, I think you would gain the most from doing a kitbash first to get your feet wet. I would use channel stock for the frame as most driver sets are designed for channel mounting rether than bar stock, so you should investigate the drivers before making that choice.
