There was pre-interstate suburbs and post-interstate suburbs. The later are quite costly financially and were based on capacity that has now dried up with no reasonable way to expand in many cases. To the degree they set the marketplace expectation that is now changing it is interesting to look at them…
Back to Long Distance operations, which I admit I got away from…
Transmark Analysis, from “A Reexamanination of the Amtrak Route Structure”, USDOT 1978
Using the first year-round column, the carmile maintenance and operation costs would be $2.31/car-mile for (21 revenue berth) sleeping cars and $2.08/car-mile for (52 revenue seat) coach cars of that era converted to ($2012). These values are within a few cents of the range determined by a spreadsheet model I keep once capital purchase costs are taken out as was assumed by the Transmark study. I believe Transmark was a British Rail consulting subsidiary. Now this was probably for steam heated equipment, most assuredly “heritage” cars in some state of rehabilitation.
Now, everybody says that the sleeping cars are more expensive as they demand more interior/systems maintenance. Perhaps that is true, but I would suggest that it just isn’t that much of a per carmile basis. Say Bob and Norm spend 4 hours on a single car doing other maintenance and cleaning solely required of a sleeper at each terminal. Say that costs $340 in labor and $40 for parts, as there are at least two sleepers on most consists, and they split the shift, half for each car. But over the 1377 miles of the Crescent that works out to $380/1377 miles = $0.276 per carmile, or $0.023 per average room mile occupancy. ($0.23 vs $0.28/carmile), pretty close to the 1978 dif
CNL as Don said, is a nice adjunct service. One correction in V. Payne’s comment [“a string of closely spaced pickup and dropoff points in the metro areas on either side of an overnight through run. This is how the CityNightLine operations are structured”] It’s a good idea, but a glance at the linked CNL brochure (in English) shows that is not the case with the exception of Berlin and Hamburg on some routes.
If this were a rational situation, there would be huge immediate investment in short distance trains which might serve communities within a 250 radius, more frequent availability (like several FULL trains per day), and for long distance travel, equipment suitable for the task including sleeping accomodations. If we were talking trucking commodities, there would be no delay in investment. But since we are talking people and severe competition against airlines and inefficient, slow and expensive automobiles, the congress people can’t seem to get their heads around the concept. GW Bush of course, tried mightily to kill Amtrak entirely and starved the system so it will take years to recover.
Correct, it is meant to be paired with ICE on one leg out/back.I believe the schedule has changed over the years, you are correct as well. On one timetable I seem to remember a few years ago, one of the major German Metro areas being served twice, like 7:30 am and then 8:30 am, with a few other stops in the nearby towns in a loop to bring you back. Last time I was aboard was 2005.
But look at the frequency of stops in the late evening PM early AM of the trips, some are 20 to 30 minutes apart, but in the overnight hours they are 2-3 hours apart, and only at the main stations.
Roughly speaking for a two engine consist, operated in the current manner, inclusive of Equipment and Terminal Capital, Overhauls and Maintenance, and Labor I get these costs:
$24/trainmile in fixed cost for track access, stations, and operating crew, irregardless
$2.68/carmile for coaches and $2.86/carmile for sleepers, multiply by 125% (5/4) if you assume a food service car for 4 revenue cars
$3.50 per trainmile for the dining car labor
For the way the Crescent is operated today, I still get around $50/trainmile in direct long term costs, which fits with the PRIIA route improvement reports for direct cost with equipment capital added in. Recently the Crescent, even for its puny capacity, has been pulling in revenue of $31/trainmile or so.
The existing $19/trainmile difference even though it represents some inefficient operating practices, when divided by the equivalent number of passenger automobiles worth of people on the train, is close to the interstate highway subsidy.
If you do the modifications that the PRIIA reports suggested you get historical Federal interstate highway subsidy (state cost are mostly a wash but I am going back and looking at them). Add even more revenue cars and you get half the interstate highway subsidy(Non-linear), eventually getting to a much lower subsidy, a level roughly equal to the government borne automobile accident costs as the Variable portion of the subsidy.
I can walk up to the Peachtree St station right now and get a ticket for tomorrow night’s Crescent to NYP for $138 (tonight’s fare is $217). A flight on Thursday AM is $189. How exactly will lower fares attract more riders? Could there really be potential passengers out there whose go/don’t go price point is say $100 vs $138?
Only a decade ago, the Crescent had a fifth coach. That has disappeared. Pricing has always been below airfare. There’s just not much demand, I think
You could get a one way ticket on the Crescent tonight to Charlotte(what could become a good short corridor) for $56.00. Tomorrow night $70.00. Problem isn’t so much length of journey - 5:17 - but the time you arrive in Charlotte: 1:21 am.
On the other hand, the air connections are not so good. Non-stop is 1:10, but the fare is $464.00 and many flights are one stop and five hours. So if Amtrak could think beyond what it inherited 35 years ago, it could tap and get a good market share for that segment of 250 miles, especially if the time could be reduced to 3.5 hours.
I can drive to Charlotte in 3-1/2 hours. It’s not a bad drive except on Friday evenings and Sunday afternoons in the summer - lake traffic…
Most Atlantans live on the north side and the airport is on the south side. I don’t know anyone who would consider flying to Charlotte.
Now, if you could do a couple/three trains a day and you had a stop in Duluth/Buford… you might have something. You could even live with somewhat slower trip times.
Don: Why should the Crescent be changed when both Thur & Fr are sold out ? As well north bound FR &Su, Mo in sleepers sold out. Since these trains are sold out why would AMTRAK build stations in Austell & Buford?. Don’t get me wrong. The lack of equipment system wide is deplorable and a couple day trains ATL - WASH are needed with at least one going ATL - CLT - Raleigh - Richmond - Wash. But until the equipment shortage is changed AMTRAK must live within its means. Another equipment problem is the lack of Business class seats as they seem to be sold out first system wide but converting regular coaches is counter productive as AMTRAK would loose total seating capacity. Business class ATL - NOL might sell very well ?
We went through this before. New Orleans is or shoujld be a popular desination for college students, and their are plenty along the Atlanta-New-Orleans route. Cannot easily use a laptop and get homework done on a bus. Worth the extra fare if marketed properly.
Station stop times would seem to be independent of the service provided. This is just the way they like to do it now. If they got a cross-subsidy equivalent per mile then they have the financial incentive to reduce the dwell as it just cost them wages otherwise.
Yikes, 6:30 AM from Atlanta. Again, I am not saying that a day trip on the corridor is not warranted if you could have more than one train, some type of pair would make the most sense.
How about instead the 1971 schedule come back into play. Or better yet, a 6:00 PM departure out of Atlanta, and then a 11:00 PM arrival into Charlotte. If you could just get the day portion of the trip from New Orleans up to 53 mph average with some station stop discipline, then you are at a 7:30 AM departure from NOL. Could play schedule builder all day…
But that would give you the option of a same day equipment turn in NYC, no way! If the operator had the discipline of being paid by the passenger mile equivalent cross-subsidy, then an incentive exists. Freeing up an entire set of equipment just might be the incentive to make such a short turn work. Have a plan in place to short turn at WAS, PHL, BHM, and Meridian depending of the degree of the delay, with connections provided beyond by train in the NEC and tour bus to the south.
The later rush hour departure would allow long-distance commuters, those that make say two to three trips to the head office a week, to use the service out of Atlanta and points between to Charlotte. Then you fill up the same cars in Charlotte with riders for the NEC, ala Megabus. FIt some refurbished amcoaches out in a full car 2-1 configuration, seating around 60, at a reduced seat spacing, just as a test of the market.
Perhaps one obvious approach: make subsidy arrangements with colleges to provide reduced fare for students with valid ID. Follow-on from there might provide advance warning of peak ‘academic travel’ and allow for special incentives (or tie-ins, or special for-profit amenities just for those times). Should not be difficult to set this up, or get some state-level funding for this specific purpose. Good PR for Amtrak concerning this underrepresented travel group, too.
May I add that recent traffic on this thread is a demonstration of the very best kind of thinking and general discourse that I hoped I would find on this board…
Amtrak has a student advantage program. It costs $20 a year and requires buying a ticket at least 3 days in advance. If provides a 15 per cent discount off regular fares.
Amtrak also recognizes an international student id card. This is a specific organization. Membership costs $25. Whether it is one time or each year is unclear. It also requires a ticket be purchased at least 3 days in advance and Amtrak gives a 15 per cent discount.
Students and all people under age 15 travel for half fare.
Checked the Megabus site. ATL to NO, 8-9 hours, $3.00-45.00, equipped with free Wi-Fi. Amtrak: 11 hours, $61.20 with student discount. Doesn’t look like much of a market now. Megabus is now serving 25 million passengers in North America (primarily eastern US and ON and Quebec)… At the rate of growth they currently have, it will pass Amtrak.
I believe Megabus is running “investment mileage” aka running a loss to enter the markets from their annual reports. They just like Greyhound with Bolt, use their existing business base to provide a below margin product to enter or keep market share. I don’t know how long it can go on.
