long train symbols (ie) Q-STLCLO

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

It seems like BNSF and UP train symbols are tough to say. I live in the east where all the railroads use a number system ( ex: 171, 23T, Q238. ) I was just wondering if you guys out west ever find it hard to remmeber these longer train symbols, or if the crew have trouble saying them. It seems like it would be a mouthful, how do they communicate on the radio. Do they call up their full train symbol, engine number or what? - Andrew Belleville, MI

2

usually the only time we use the whole train symbol would be to tell the dispatcher which train you are when starting out, such as bringing power out of the house to get on a train, otherwise just the engine number is used.

I still have no clue how the eastern numbering system works, seems like a lot of info to understand whats goin on, bnsf train symbol q-stlclo would be a q train st louis to clovis, fairly straight foward for me, kckclo, kansas city to clovis, etc. I think it has to do with which system you know and use often.

3

Back in the day before Southern Pacific was merged into the Union Pacific they (SP) used a 10 digit symbol for their traffic. When talking to the dispatcher they used the engine number. On a rair time they would use just the letters (i.e. LABAF) part of the symbol.

It’s kind of simple after you get used to it.

4

The Alpa-Numaric system is much easier to understand then the numari System. It gives more information to a new railfan than the numbers that CSX and NS use.

5

thank you guys for clearing that up for me. Yeah eastern system is pretty simple to us. Bascailly all you need is a timetable. As for NS at least, NS runs on a system of 3 digits, generally 3 numbers. 252, 171. Its pretty simple, odd numbers are south and west, even # are north and east bound moves. 100s are merchandise, 200 are intermodel, autorack, and roadrailers. 300 interdivisonal merchandise, and so on. since the conrail merger, ex-CR lines have a lot of train symbols like 23M, 12A, and such. This is because we’ve run out of numbers. So they simply add a letter. NS b-4 the CR merger, also used letters for extras, (ie) an extra section of 171 would be M71. M-mixed, I-intermodel, U-unit and so on. We basically memorize them on our line, 171 252, 253 are the big ones, just from reading a timetable, we know where they go.

As for CSX, i dont know what the heck they do but its simply a letter, follows by 3#s, and now the day it operated. Q230-13.

6

Anybody know CSX train symboling system. please no links to bullsheet.

7

nevermind, CSX symbols go like this:

Coal Trains

8

You forgot the B series, which I believe are all locals. Occasionally you’ll hear an S, which, IIRC, is a “second section.”

The CSX train numbers also include the date: Q620-24.

As I’ve seen from other posts and sources, the alphabet soup version, while cryptic, actually tells you the origin and destination of the train. You just have to know what the three letter designations for those places are.

9

Yeah, it is a good system, you cant go wrong with it. Although im unsure, what you’d do if you have multiple trains running the same routing, such as Kanas City to LA. I just thought it would be hard for a crew to say the sysmbol everytime he talks on the radio. UP had a 5 digit system, and conrail had everytihng. ELSE-8, PIBR-4 and stuff.

10

Yeah, CSX locals use diffrent letter systems. Downsouth, i’ve heard, J’s, up here in Detroit we got D’s. So it verys from division to division.

11

Yeah, CSX locals use diffrent letter systems. Downsouth, i’ve heard, J’s, up here in Detroit we got D’s. So it verys from division to division.

12

On the SP if they had a multiple section train then they would say second PTLAF or whatever the section number was and symbol or just the engine number (i.e. SP6800 east).

13

I must be doing something wrong. I get called for work and I board the engine and head west on a even number train. layover and come back east on a odd number train. Oh well thats the ns for ya. Oh and what timetable are you reading getting the destinations of trains? again i need to tell my trainmaster he needs to get me the proper paperwork so i know where im going and what im hauling. I just hate it when im lost and not sure whats up.

14

Is there anyway to tell where a BNSF or UP train is headed or where its coming from when out railfanning since they don’t call their symbols over the radio? How do some people know, or is it just a guess? The only way I can identify trains on the BNSF or UP is by the type of cars and/or time of day it is passing. Is there an easier way?

15

Every so often some one will ask the train crew for the train’s symbol. Most of the time it’s all in knowing what train symbol is running at what general time frame. The freight traffic out west doesn’t run by timetable or time schedule. For those who have been around long enough they can make an educated guess what the symbol is.

16

The BNSF mainline train symbol system now in use began in July 1997. This has to be the most silly of any train symbol system ever put in use. Story goes this was the brainstorming of a BN traffic mgr in St.Paul. Again another case of BN destroying the great tradition of the Santa Fe.

17

The Altamont Press “California Region Timetable” [not sure which is the latest] has UP and BNSF train symbols listed in the Special Instructions.
I worked SP-UP for 30 years; two characters each for Origin and Destination seems sufficient. The BNSF three-character O-D seems overkill.

18

You do not need long train symbols. The Delaware & Hudson had a very nice system. i.e. MB1 was Mechanicville, NY, to Binghamton, NY. Odd numbers Southbound and Even numbers Northbound. BM2 = Binghamton to Mechanicville. AB1 = Albany to Binghamton. The numbers increasing as to the number of trains scheduled each direction each day. WR1= Wilksboro, PA to Rouses Point, NY. Passenger trains were just straight numerical; odd numbers Northbound and even numbers Southbound.

With the increase of the railroads sharing trackage rights, etc., one would think they would come up with a standard method of Train Symbols.

19

A 1-character Origin-Destination train ID labors with all the O’s and D’s of today’s large roads. ATSF tried a variation of that, with their “991”, etc. The Train ID conveys a lot of info to the troops, esp. at yards - having greater detail as to O and D helps a lot. But 3-characters for O and D is a bit baroque in its splendor!

20

Some years ago, I was a Division Manager for a Crew Shuttle service which contracted to BNSF in the Southwest. During this time, I had an opportunity to become very familiar with BNSF’s train symbol system. It’s really not as complicated as it looks:

Our dispatchers spoke with BNSF dispatchers and crews by phone and radio 24hrs/day about various trains, and most of them got easy to say and remember ‘nicknames’ based on the symbol.

The first letter describes the type of train (S=Stack train, M=Manifest or ‘Mixed Freight’, etc.) This can be very useful when looking for a particular train.

The following 6 letters describe the origin (first 3) and destination (last 3.) In your example, we would call it the “Still-Clo.” Others might be “Kick-Bar” for KCKBAR (Kansas City - Barstow) or “Lack-Hew” for LACHOU (Los Angeles - Houston). Really kind of easy, once you get into the hang of it. Most of them make no sense, just easy to remember. Some of them can even be humorous.

The symbol may also be followed by a number, such as Q-STLCLO-2. This would indicate a multi-part train that is running in sections.

You are right, the Eastern numerical system may seem easier, but you get a lot more information about a train just from it’s symbol out West!

By the way, I live in Maine now… and I sorely miss the long train symbols!