Longing for Model Railroading from the old days

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Yes, I am from the “new generation” as they call it…

From what I have learned, Model Railroading in the 19’s had a LOT more hands on doing. Now, everything is premade, pre-superdetailed, pre installed DCC sound, and very $$$.

What is even more sad is although this may sound perfectly natural, people now complain about some $400 engine that dosen’t run well, or came out of the box with a broken detail. If someone from 1980’s got THAT engine, they probably wouldn’t care at all and would fix it.

I bet in 20 years, we would probably be buying preassembled layouts!

Im not saying that modern model railroading is bad, but I wish that there is more hands on doing in this hobby(other than Layout building). I wish that engine kits could come back to this hobby, and that kits were more popular.

For example, I’ve been buying engines off the Bay that had a really minor problems (broken motor wire, missing wheel contacts, etc) and the owner sold as Restoration required. Not that getting a GREAT deal is bad, but its sad to see that they couldn’t fix a minor problem.

I was just learning about model railroading in the 19’s and realized how hands off this hobby is now, and wanted to make a rant.

I’ll shut up now. [:D]

Charles

EDIT: Yes, I know that there are a lot of talented modelers in this forum, but Im talking more about the “new generation”, and how hands off they are.

2

To some extent I agree; but some of the new technology we have today is far beyond the wildest dreams we would have had in the 1980s. Like DCC sound decoders with actual recordings of protytype loco sounds, and multichannel playback so more than one sound can play simultaneously.

I do miss the undecorated kits; it bothers me to take a good factory painted model and strip all that nice paint off so I can model something that is not manufactured. I miss Athearh BB kits, but their place has somewhat been taken by Accrail and Bowser with much better detail.

3

Charles I’m with you 100%. I can still remember getting my first MDC 0-6-0 Kit ($6.85) back in 1951 and the thrill I got assembling it. Prices were on the way up, I bought a Bowser Big Boy Kit in 1963 for $38. 95. Now I scan eBay for clunkers to restore.

I have only bought a few new locomotives, a Rivarossi Cab Forward in 1990 and a Bachmann Shay in 2003 that had to be returned to the factory three times before it would run. I did get a good running Mantua Logger 2-6-6-2 in 2010 but it’s the nosiest running locomotive I own.

I get more of a thrill restoring a clunker so that is runs like new than buying a new locomotive.

Mel

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

4

OK, Charles, how old are you?

I’ve been at this hobby since 1967, I worked in several hobby shops in the late 70’s and early 80’s, and I’m not as old as some of the guys on this forum.

Yes, it would be nice if there was still a larger selection of undecorated kits, but at least for a while, there is big supply of kits out there on the secondary market, and you can still “do” the hobby the old ways - OR - better yet, you can pick and choose old ways and new ways to suit your own tastes.

I still have lots of kits to build, and still buy more all the time, on Ebay and at train shows, and new from some of the remaining suppliers. But I also buy RTR - both high end and not so high end.

I still kit bash and super detail even with RTR as the starting point.

I build my own control/signaling/CTC system - because I can and because it suits my needs.

I have rejected DCC and onboard sound.

As for money, I have a large layout currently under re-construction, it will need a lot of locos. My current fleet is about 135 powered units, steam and first generation diesels.

OK, no sound or DCC, but most have been made in the last 20-25 years, many of them in the last 10 years, and on average I have only spent about $125 each…

So, at least for now, you can still do much of the “old ways” if you want to…

Sheldon

5

Sheldon nailed it, as he usually does. The hands-on ways are there for those who prefer them. Heck, Accurail and Bowser kits are listed on modeltrainstuff as I write this. The RTR option has added another route into the hobby – a pricey one, true – but the scratchbuild it/fix it/figure it out yourself method has not been supplanted. Many a modeler takes this route.

I prefer the RTR avenue simply because of these big clumsy sausage fnigers that don’t play well with tiny parts. Nothing but respect and admiration for the modelers who do things the other way.

Stu

6

This hobby is finally what you make out of it, as there is something in for whatever taste, skill, capabilities, talent and, last but not least, wallet.

If you dig fixing broken things, scratchbuilding, why, just look around in this forum, there are many threads showing you what´s possible!

7

Some of the prices are deserved, some are not. A lot of reasons from wages in China to consumer gouging and everything in between, I will stop there and let it go.

Personally, I have 3 things I deem expensive engine wise:

1)I preordered a Scaletrains Big Blow. It was a gift to me for working 12 of 14 nights in a rown for 3.5 mths on a turnaround at work. I cannot comment on it yet since it has not been released. Their customer interaction impresses me as well as the fact that modelers stepped up to help them! Besides my next alternative for a Big Blow is $2500 and brass.

  1. DDA40X Athearn Genesis:

Sounds great! Looks great! Runs and pulls awesome when it wants too… So far it has had a bad connection at one of the decoders, a busted truck lead and a worm gear cover that likes to spontaneously let loose. So that makes it an overpriced pile of junk that I should go chuck thru Horizons window since I’m really not that far.

4-8-4 FEF2 Athearan Genesis:

Sounds awesome! Looks awesome! Runs and pulls well when it want to… Likes to lose power on 30+ inch curves. Just goes dead. Touch the tender and away we go. It’s been broke down far enough to get to the wipers on engine and tender and apply a slight amount of pressure more than the factory (if u have one flip it over and realize how much contact you don’t have on the engine especially). Tracked down some CRC 2-26 and am going to break down the tender and go thru the wheels and pickup to try and find the source of the issue. Again for the price I shouldn’t feel that I need to throw it thru the window next to the one at Horizon Hobbies that I already threw the DDA40X thru.

Older P2K stuff I love. Nice details that don’t fall off when you touch it. Just expect to throw new axle gears in it and go after a very good cleaning(that factory lube is horrible). I

8

I have gone all over the place: taking “junk” and turning them into good running cars and engines. I have created Tythearns (Tyco/Athearn kitbashes which are my road engines and cabooses) and a Bachthearn (a GP30, the newest addition to my stable). I also have kitbashed Athearn parts and pieces to create unique cars (woodchip hoppers from Athearn 34’ flat end hoppers and a transfer caboose from a flat car, a bay window caboose and a boxcar.) I also have purchased some cars and changed them to make them more accurate to their prototypes. There are also many that were purchased RTR as that was the way there were marketed. Many of my cars and engines are Athearn BBs. I have painted some of my equipment and some of it was predecorated. I have equipment from just about every manufacturer that has made cars or engines in the last 25 years or so. (Accurail, Athearn {BB and RTR}, Atlas {yellow and red boxes}, Bachmann, Branchline {pre-Atlas}, Con-Cor, E&C Shops, ExactRail, Life-Like {P2K}, MDC/Roundhouse, Model Power, Walthers) I probably forgotten one or two but that says something right there.

In summary you can go wherever you want with it.

9

I am 15 (born 2000).

Yes, I know that I can just go on the 'Bay and find stuff.

What I am trying to say is that there should be more hands on in this hobby.

For example…

I wish that someone made a KIT for a ATSF 2-8-0(or any engine that you want).

To some people(like me), I would get more enjoyment out of building it myself, detailing it , adding DCC sound myself, etc instead of the Manufacturer doing it.

Not only is it more fun, but it is more impressive when showing it off, it should cost less than a pre-assembled loco, and I get the feeling of proud and ownership(you know that good feeling when you finish a looong project)

Now if you’re super talented like RGD Casey, you could just scratchbuild an engine, but most of us(not trying to offend anyone) can’t do that.

Charles

10

I started in model railroading in the mid-'50s, and in many ways haven’t strayed too far from those days. Some of my rolling stock and a couple of locos survive from that time, but even the stuff I buy nowadays isn’t too high tech. No sound or even DCC, and most of my rolling stock is kits, bought from old stock at local hobby shops or used, at the same shops or at train shows.

I have some r-t-r rolling stock that, in my opinion, wasn’t quite ready, and modified it accordingly.
My locomotives, steam, are r-t-r from Bachmann, Athearn, and Proto, but all are modified mechanically and in appearance, as are the couple of brass locos I was able to acquire.
I have quite a few Accurail cars (they fit my late '30s layout era), built from kits and mostly modified, and Bowser, too, but I also have kits from Rapido, Tangent, Rail Shop, Rib Side Cars, and the usual craftsman-type cars from Westerfield, F&C, and WrightTRAK.
Most of my passenger cars are old Athearn, Rivarossi, and MDC cars, all extensively modified, but I also have Branchline and Walthers cars, built from kits.
I also have a Bowser kit for a Pennsy A-5 (0-4-0) complete with can motor and superdetailing parts. This was bought new-in-box, with a number of other Bowser locomotive kits, by a friend, in an estate lot at our LHS. He gave it to me, and I’ll build it and then give it to another friend.
As has been mentioned above, there are still lots of old, unbuilt kits floating around out there, and usually at very affordable prices, but many recent manufacturers are offering limited numbers of kits for their latest r-t-r offerings.

Beyond the trains themselves, there’s a better selection than ever of scratchbuilding materials, whether you want to build even more trains or perhaps some structures for your layout, and scenery making now offers more methods and more choices in materials, too.

Wayne

11

I’m in the same boat.

I do wheeling and Lake Erie railway, and there is a serious lack of accurate equipment. So I have to strip and decal locos with the correct paint- heck, I make my own decals Some of the time.

I prefer doing scratchbuilding over pre-assembled buildings.

If if you enjoy a certain aspect of the hobby-do it.

12

What I am trying to say is that there should be more hands on in this hobby.

Charles - “should” is the wrong verb. How can you tell it isn´t already? There is as much “hands on” as any model railroader likes to have. So don´t try to tell anybody what he/she should do or not do.

13

You make it all sound like a bad thing. [oX)]

Young padowan, perhaps you should consider not everyone has the ability to troubleshoot broken stuff so perhaps a little empathy and understanding would help you be less frustrated with others. It’s like my old math teachers who would have a hard time understanding why some of his math students had trouble understanding the math theoroms and identities; hello, he is a math teacher cause he likes it and is good at it. My wife isn’t good at math oriented science at all, but she is very good at medical and social behavior types of things. You get the idea. It may seem simple to you, but not always for others.

I seriously doubt as a rule, people will be buying pre-assembled layouts unless they are mega rich. FYI, there are companies now that will do that for you but you’ll need beaucoup bucks, orders of magnitude more than you need to buy nice RTR rolling stock. [;)]

[quote]
Im not saying that modern model railroading is bad, but I wish that ther

14

I read this again this morning.

I replied once, but the more shocking part about everything going to RTR and the like is people are accepting $200, $300, $400 engines that have issues. Even sadder is a good number of them are the same thing from 5 or 10 years ago just with a substantial proce increase for no true economic reason.

Then to back that up, the manufacturers really don’t care and you just get stuck in the end.

Athearn Genesis is my current whipping boy for this, I’ve watched my own engines have issues and multiple people at the club as well.

Maybe Model Reailroader should do an article on new engines and reliability and include the users in it and not the manufacturers. But they don’t seem to go that route much anymore…

15

Change is a constant some cannot deal with.

Rich

16

Scroll through these forums for the entries by Doctor Wayne about his amazing rebuilds of train-set quality freight cars, or the astounding tank car modeling by a guy named Bobbie, and you’ll see that as pointed out earlier, the hobby remains as hands on as you want it to be and are prepared to make it. Hands on does not by the way necessarily mean cheaper.

All those old E L Moore structure articles are still there waiting to be followed, and there is still balsa wood and manila folders so the raw materials are still available. Go for it.

Some of the nostalgia for the prior era has a point – I personally am less depressed about ready to run versus kits than I am about the many lines of detail and after market parts that are no longer available. Those at least are NOT as readily found at swap meets as are the kits themselves. On the other hand, the array of styrene shapes and sheets and raw materials we have available to us today is astounding. The scratchbuilders of the 1950s would have given their eye-teeth for that, and for the excellent glues and cements we enjoy. Ditto for scenery materials.

But much of that nostalgia for the earlier era is totally misplaced. Yes those model railroaders built more stuff, either scratch or from craftsman kits, but when it was from necessity that meant it was involuntary and there was plenty of marginal modeling on display. It isn’t like everybody was Jack Work or Jock Oliphant or Joe Kunzelmann! It’s just that we continue to look at and admire their work. It can be very revealing to look at MR’s Trackside Photos from the 1950s to 1970s and see how some very flawed modeling and photography was considered good enough to get published, side by side with some wonderful modeling.

And there was plenty of RTR back then, much of it not good. Some horrible motors and drive

17

I have a few models on my layout that were the result of setting myself a challenge, build something with only those things in the scrap box. Some came out well, and some did not.

Clubs and NMRA Divisions sometimes sponser such scrap box challenges.

Perhaps these events should be promoted as a means of encouraging more hands-on activity?

Kevin

18

I’ll stick my neck out and say I think we are presently in the golden age of the hobby in terms of what is available - both lots of new, very nice items on the market in the past 10 years and still coming, as well as a good deal of “old school” stuff and kits out on the secondary market on Ebay, train shows etc. So there is a very wide range of model railroad products available to us. A fellow modeler remarked a few months back and said: Model railroading is insanely good these days. I agree!

Funny if a person can ignore reality. But it does remind me, I see cars from my high school years that don’t really look like antique cars but have antique plates. Thats more scary than anything.

Is it really necessary? If so, why?

OTOH, its certainly good to have resources and people who are willing to help those who want to learn new skills. While I’m not motivated presently, nor have time to get into rolling stock modeling and detailing, I am working on a layout so I need to learn how to do things like making a river, forming scenery, making tree’s and scrub brush, making a backdrop etc. So it’s great to have those in the hobby willing to people learn new skills.

19

These are the good old days – right now! To be modeling in this time in history is amazing. There are more materials that work and look better than ever before.

I’ll add to the chorus: Kits aren’t going anywhere. Nearly anything that was produced is out there. As for loco kits: the old Bowser kits are still around.

As for the idea that “Hands on” modeling as disappeared: I think you are looking in the wrong places. Check out the narrow gauge community, companies like: Rio Grande Models, Banta, Yorke, FSM, Grandt Line, Mt Albert, Tichy etc…the list is quite long.

There is a large community of modelers who scratch build and do things in a more “old school style’. Most of us don’t see this as an either or thing….Great quality

20

Charles,By the time I was 15 I built several Hobbytown RS3s and few Hobbytown drives for the Athearn GP7. It wasn’t all that and a big bag of Fritos since there was lots of tweaking to do to get those drives where they would crawl from tie to tie.Today the beautiful Atlas RS-3 will do that from the box. You can still add road details like maker lights on the side of the hoods,proper horns add seats,Atlas cab instrument panel and better engineer and fireman.You can weather cars,build Accurail or Scale Train car kits,kitbash or scratchbuild a structure and then add details to your current structures.Lots of hands on modeling left.