Well I have made some important decisions this week, and maybe after I decide on a concept/design I can actually get started in this hobby. Here is my criteria so far…
Model in steam era mainly, most like 30’s-40’s era large freight locomotives like 4-6-4 and 4-8-4, maybe eventually a challenger or Big boy.
DC to start and test with and eventually DCC
Try to fill as much of my space with layout leaving enough room for 3’ aisle in most places and an area for my computer desk/workbench or tools.
Some sort of switching yard, doesn’t have to be huge just functional.
bridge, overpass, truss, some sort of mountain-river or road crossings because they look spectacular.
Plenty of track for multiple trains but not too cluttered, I would like to model buildings and such to look realistic and build lights/ automation into the scenes to bring the layout alive.
Roundhouse is optional, they are cool but if space is not available then it doesn’t matter
8.staging is find but i have no clue how to do it properly
A dogbone type mainline with 2 tracks and the ablility to continuously run large steam freight trains and meanwhile do some switching or delivery to buisnesses
passengers trains are ok but not a must, im not really interested in that
I hope I covered most things I want lots of switches so I can have the ability to do a lot with the trains. Here is a link to my first concept with dimension in feet http://photobucket.com/albums/c317/supergenius74/?action=view¤t=concept1.jpg -shane
I think you might regret having your track toward the back of your benchwork. Not only does this put your trains farther from your view but also you will have to reach over your layout to re-rail a train. This can take a toll on your foreground structures and scenery. Generally it is better to keep you mainline close to the front of the bench work. On my layout, the mainline is near the front except for the portion which runs through my main yard. I can get away with this because there are very few structures in the way. Also, I’d rather have easy access to the yard tracks rather than the mainline in this area. The mainline through the yard area is used primarily by passenger trains. Almost all freights leave the mainline to enter the yard.
the drawing is a concept and will have many switches to allow going from track to track, i haven’t figured out the branchlines yet either. Thats a great suggestion about the main line being furthest from reaching distance, I could always move the track towards the middle of the layout and run branch lines to both sides of it. I’m a fairly tall person 6’ with good reach and I have even thought of using a small step to allow me to reach the furthest points, I’m in my early 30’s so still very limber too. I will do some experimenting with this scenario first though.
I think jecorbett is right. Even at your height, reaching into that upper right-hand corner is going to be very difficult. Re-locate that track nearer the front of the layout and you will be much happier.
Joseph2 also makes a good point about the inner loops. Once in them, there is no way out. I am sure that is because this is a concept plan and not a layout plan, but it could be an oversight. When you correct this, watch out for potential reversing loops. They will have to be wired correctly.
One question that pops into my mind is why you plan on starting with DC if you will eventually use DCC? It would be better (and easier) for you to start with the DCC, even if that means buying a small, cheap DCC system like Bachmann’s. At least you will have a head start on DCC. Upgrading to a better DCC system is MUCH easier than ungrading from DC to DCC. You will then start out with DCC equipped locos and totally avoid having to add decoders later.
Another thought concerns your use of 4’ wide sections. Is 4’ really necessary? I think you would do better with narrower sections. They would be easier to reach across, meaning that you could mount them higher off the floor and use the space below the layout for your desk and workbench. That would also free up more space in the room, allowing the use of peninsulas to expand the switching aspects of your layout.
Those loops at either end of the layout are listed as 36" to 42" radius. That is a very wide radius in HO, enormous in N! Unless you plan on running a lot of articulated locomotives and long passenger trains, you could save a lot of space by using smaller radii. Challengers, and especially Big Boys, were late '40’s locomotives. If your layout is set much earlier than 1945, you won’t be having those huge locos on your layout.
On staging: with a layout this size, staging begs to be on a lower level. Since you have long runs available to you, you could put cut-off turnouts at the loops on both
Hmmm, I am of the school of thought that says to start small and grow later (maybe meaning when the preschool kids grow up and leave the house) when there is more room available.
You could build one of those 4x8 loops first just to have a place to play with trains and keep your interest up while the rest is under construction. Later you can re-do the primitive tabletop with real benchwork.
I agree that you do not want any track out of reach UNLESS it is straight and flat, with no turnouts, one big electrical block, that just moves trains from here to there, and can be seen from both ends.
You should consider (but might discard) putting the tool area and/or the computer desk on one side of the room rather than in the middle. This will open up more possibilities. You only have to have access along one wall - the one with the door.
You may want only one branch line (of the two shown) and in the other space put the yard / roundhouse / whatever that will make the mainline run interesting.
I do staging with a track designated “interchange” and a couple of shelves underneath my layout. Every time I finish playing with my trains, I take everything off the interchange track and replace them with the same number of cars from the next shelf in order. It is clumsy but it works. With the space you have available you can build a staging yard underneath the main layout and store whole trains in there.
The December issue of MR (the one they sell during November - go figure) has an article on designing layouts that you may find helpful for nailing down ideas and starting physical work.
PS: I live in Ft Wayne, too. Do you want some help?
I would like to suggest getting Kalmbach’s 48 Top-Notch Track Plans. This was an invaluable resource to me when I was in the initial design phase. The first section explains how to “doodle”, what kind of curvatures are needed for different kinds of locos etc. It also has a lot of examples of what can be done in spaces of varing sizes. It gave me lots of ideas. There is one example in this pub for a 24x24 (pg 72) built on the idea of modules like you have and one of a long running line (pg 65). These and others in the pub could give you some more ideas.
One of the things I did wrong on my layout was putting in a duck under to access the room,wish I wouldn’t have done that. I read some turnouts are more DCC friendly then others,you might wi***o investigate before buying.I also live near Fort Wayne,there is a active NMRA division there plus a model RR club.If you wish I can post a link to the NMRA division’s website. Joe
With a dogbone track plan, every crossover between mains becomes a reversing section. If you put the reversing section in the loops in DC, then every time every train goes around the loop you have to operate the reversing section. That’s a lot of toggle switch flipping to run a train.
Also the benchwork being 4 ft wide is waaaaay too wide. the maximum you could hope to reach is 3 ft and than is leaning over benchwork that’s only 3 ft off the floor. If you put it at “normal” benchwork height (40-48" off the floor) you can only reach in 30" . Make the benchwork 30" deep at most… You don’t have to make it the full width of a sheet of plywood, they sell things called saws to make them narrower.
Also if you think about it, with a dogbone you pretty much have to run “in one direction” because when the side of the dogbone touch it creates the illusion of going in opposite directions
The plan is also purely symmetrical. don’t be afraid to mix it up a little. Those long straights along the back wall will be hard to scenic.
Unless there is some window or door access problem you are wasting space by not pushing the blobs (turnback loop areas) into the corners and even around the corners. You can’t reach across them anyway, you will have to have some sort of “pop up” to reach the back, go ahead and pu***hem into the corners. You would almost be better to make the blobs rounded and only 6’ 6’ wide and then move the layout out 3 ’ from the wall so it ran down the center of the room with a backdrop down the middle. Put a yard on the back side of one leg and then run a double track main all the way around the layout. The yard becomes “visible staging”, you get true double track, and can orbit trains with little or no switch flipping.
As far a staging goes, there are many different approaches.
There is the visible staging mentioned above.
You could put a “helix” (a long spiral) on each end
Thank you so much everyone, this is really great being able to bounce ideas off of you all and now my mind is really rolling with ideas. It seem the more I try to plan it the more ideas i think of and I am sure I will never be completely content but will find a happy medium. I have made another concept check it out i changed one size of the room after doing some re-measuring. http://photobucket.com/albums/c317/supergenius74/?action=view¤t=concept2.jpg
The first track plan had way more opportunity than the “new” plan. The new plan is a really big 4x8 sheet of plywood layout. If your goal is a “NASA mission” layout (seeing how many things you can keep orbiting without hitting the ground) you’re there. If your goal is to have operations like a real railroad, you have taken a step back.
I agree with Dave (dehusman). Your first concept had a lot more potential than the second.
As some have already said, you really need to re-think your need for 48" deep decks. You can safely reach only 24 to 30", so 48" is way beyond your reach.
When it comes to curves, you really don’t need such huge radii. Using a minimum of 30" (for HO) or 15" (for N) would be sufficient for most trains.
If you want to run multiple trains and avoid the complex wiring a DC system will require, I strongly suggest you look into using DCC right from the beginning. You’ll find it far more enjoyable if you can run your trains without worrying about DC cab/block controls.
A lower-level staging area is be a good idea. However, considering the size of your room, you should have room on one level to put in a staging area (depending on how large a staging area you want). This would mean you don’t need to build a complicated helix.
Since you model the steam-era, you’ll most likely need a turntable or a wye to turn your locomotives. It should be near your staging yard.
Since your room seems to be a 12-foot wide L-shape, you could build an “around the walls” type layout. The deck along the walls could be 24" deep (deeper where you have reversing loops); a 30" to 36" aisles; and a 24-36" peninsula.
I notice you have not mentioned what scale you’re using. If you want long trains with large radius curves and still have room for scenicking, have you considered N-scale ? You’d get nearly double the train for the same space.
He could do an inverted “L” shaped island with a 6 ft wide crossection and do a twice around double track and put in visible staging on one side on a lower level. Staging at level +0, come out of staging on 1 side to +6, next side to +12 then back to +6 and back down to staging. All track visible in mountainous terrain. Slip in a balloon loop or two for turning trains and a small yard and a couple industrial areas and you have a layout.
Dave’s right, ditch this plan. You won’t like crawling under to get to the middle of the oval and you will be bored after a few hours of operation and will want to tear it down and start over. Save yourself the trouble and forget the second plan.
Your first plan had merit. Have you worked on it to include the suggestions you got? As Dave pointed out, we don’t know what scale you are using. That will make a difference, especially with the radius of your curves. HO and N don’t require the radius you are using, O scale does.
Keep working on it. Even the plans and ideas you reject are valuable in learning what you want and reaching that goal.
jecorbett’s point about access is what is driving my thoughts to tearing the layout down and doing it over. I’ve done a good bit of scenery but either my access pop ups are getting smaller or I’m getting bigger. Arms seem to be shrinking too.
The ideas and suggestions you see on these forums plus magazine reading makes me wish I had plugged into the underground network sooner. Would have saved a lot of frustration.
What is the small circle and angle structure in the very center of the room. Are those walls and permanent things or is that your computer and work tables?
Looks like concpet 2 is out, it was just a completely different approach but it sounds like a bad idea. The circle and angle structure in the middle of concept 1 is a computer desk and chair, what i mean by switching yard is a place where trains can be changed around, a train yard. I have grown up around yards, the yard my dad worked at as a kid had over 16 tracks besides the main line, there is no way i can build something that large, something functional will be enough for me. by switching or delivery to buisnesses i mean pretty much anything for my railroad to do, functioning like a real railroad, making deliverys and picking up empty cars. here is a drawing of my space in the basement, the dimensions i have used on the concepts is based upon non movable objects or my maximum working area. here http://photobucket.com/albums/c317/supergenius74/?action=view¤t=basement.jpg
If it was me I would put 4 foot wide bench work 30 inches from the walls and work around the room as far as possible then put a divider down the center. Looking at your drawing you could have 7 feet across the top, 19 feet down the side, 17 feet across the bottom and another 7 feet up the side. If I added correctly this would give you about 92 feet of mainline on a 2 foot wide area for sidings & industries & scenery.
You could run it a a loop or as Point to Point with back to back towns or take one entire end section an make it into “hidden” staging.
I am doing something similar to what I described and have posted the plan n another thread.
Thats a great suggestion, wow this just keeps getting tougher and tougher and it seems that the only way I could do what I want is to use my entier basement, unfortunately that can’t happen so I have to comprimise. It;s too bad I am not part of club that has a large layout, if I was i could just build a small layout for playing around and then take my trains to a big one. I think for me it mostly about big steam engines. Those need a lot of room to look right and its all about the look with them. I love watching videos of small scale live steam engines pulling long trains of people through club railroads. AT 20K just for an engine I won’t be doing that any time soon so I am trying to capture that with HO scale steam layout. I appreciate all of these suggestions everyone. shane
