Has anyone done a cost comparision between using 2x4 and 1x4 for layout constuction? Even though the 2x4’s are more expensive, is the cost made up by using less of them than 1x4’s? Is warping and bowing more of a problem with 1x4’s? I’ve also read about cutting 4’x8’x3/4" plywood into 4" strips in place of the 1x4’s. Is this a realistic alternative? Any thoughts you guys have would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan
2x4s are pretty much overkill, structurally. And very heavy to boot. My layout is movable, so my goal was sturdy, lightweight construction.
I have modules built using 1x4 frames and 1x2 joists that are 15 years old, and neery a sign of warpage. My new construction is 3/4" ply ripped into 3 1/2" widths. The oldest of these modules are 6 years old and still straight and square.
Nick
The only way that I would use a 2x4 would be to rip it into an L-girder shape, then use the strip that was cut out of it as the joists.
Otherwise, use 1x4’s or 3/4 inch plywood ripped into 3 1/2 inch strips. The best plywood is birch furniture grade plywood. It is also more expensive, but it is straight and flat. You might want to take a look at it just so you know what it is and to compare prices. Sometimes it does go on sale and can be cheaper than the regular 3/4 inch plywood.
My previous layout was all 1x4 lumber with 2" foam on top. Very sturdy. My new modules are 1x4’s with 1x3 stringers, so the foam top will be slightly inset inside the lengthwise 1x4’s. I’ll have pictures - this is going to be totally documented. Plenty strong. 2x4’s might be cheap, but that’s for messy looking and probably warped stud-grade. Also as Nick says - HEAVY. Definitely overkill, Even if you need soemthign strong enough to stand on periodically - you don’t need to build the benchwork from 2x4’s.
–Randy
Hmmm. Around here, 2"x4"s are a lot cheaper than comparable lengths of 1"x4". Don’t use strapping-grade 1"x4"s, as they’re full of knots, definitely not dry, and very prone to warping. Instead, use #1 or Select grade pine - clear of large knots and kiln-dried, and you should be able to find plenty of straight ones. While I did use 2"x4"s for legs on the layout, (I just “happened” [:-^] to have lots “left-over” [swg] from building my house) as well as to support shelving beneath it, all of the layout is framed with 1"x4" pine assembled into an open grid using drywall screws. When I eventually get around to doing the second level, my plan is to use 1"x2" clear pine, with a tabletop of 3/8" sheathing grade plywood.
Wayne
My local lumber yard will “rip” 2x4’s free of charge and they will be perfect for legs and such. Might want to check this out. Think that’s what I’ll be doing.
I use 1x3’s with 2x2" legs and 1/2" plywood. My layout is sturdy enough for me to climb on it, if needed. Yes, ripping a 3/4" sheet of plywoood is doable and might be cheaper.
I used 2x4’s (I just realised recently 2x4’s are really 1 1/2" X 3 1/2", I never bothered to check because I figured the name matched the description) probably an overkill but my layout was meant too be mobile… Either would work well.
The biggest problem with re-sawing wood (ripping) is the risk of the pieces twisting or bowing. This is due to the stresses in the wood. Knot holes and funky grain are good for this. I went a little overboard myself and made I-beams from 1/4" luan and 1x2 fir strip. They are 4 1/2" x 96" and only need support at the ends. They are straight, won’t warp, and can support my weight (180lbs) with only 1/4" deflection. I figured I could run a couple Big Boys on that. [:)]. Costs were $18 for a 4x8 sheet of luan and 1x2s were .89c.
2 bys are actually 1 1/2" by 3 1/2"; when this local lumber yard “rips” these is it done along the 1 1/2" or the 3 1/2" side?
This is why I addressed to forummember loco which way his local lumberyard “ripped” his 2 bys. Despite the best efforts of the sawmill I am sure we have all seen 2 bys more crooked than a dog’s hind leg!
As point of reference, I’ve never actually built a layout… yet. So any advice on this is just my own .02 - just thinking out loud. I was out and about getting prices in mind for the foam, wood, and such when I went to an actual lumber yard (not HD or Lowes) and saw a stack of the “ripped” 2x4’s, which as mentioned above are not really 2x4. They are ripped down the long side and that makes them almost a perfect 1.5 by 1.5. The folks at the lumber yard will let you pick your lumber and have a MUCH greater selection… you can get fine hardwoods if you want, and will almost make it a point to beat HD or Lowes - at least in service. They had some killer looking oak, maple, heck, that stuff will last you a life time. Especally if you seal it, which I plan to do. The ripped boards look as solid as anything I’ve seen and you get two legs for the price of one 2x4. They were going to be used for an outside deck - with folks walking on them. They are thick enough to run a bold through them for easy moving if ya had to, or extra support. Just something to look into…
Caveat: I live in the dessicated desert, where single-digit humidity is the norm and daily highs above blood temperature occur about 120 days out of the year. (The local weather weenies refer to 80 degrees F as, “Cool!”) Out here, wood products tend to take on wierd and wonderful (not!!!) shapes. I have gone to steel studs for all my layout-building needs.
Advantages:
Come in standard sizes. Very little waste since cutoffs can be recycled as risers.
Do not swell, shrink, warp or twist. They can be twisted, but snap back to straight when the twisting force is removed.
Can be worked with simple, inexpensive hand tools, and fastened with the least-expensive screws in the rack.
Adapt to creative tin-bending much more easily than wood adapts to creative carpentry.
Can be readily adapted to long hidden tangent spans - as much as 96 inches between anchorages for a ‘rain gutter’ bridge in HO.
Strong enough for most model railroad uses.
Scraps, shards and shavings clean up with a magnet.
Disadvantages:
Material and working methods are unfamiliar (but very easily learned!)
Somewhat susceptible to damage from bending stress in excess of normal model railroading loads.
Conductive - wiring has to be protected from bare-metal contact.
Sharp edges - wear gloves and use duct tape where wiring passes through the cut-in conduit holes. As with anything that may produce flying fragments, safety glasses are a must!
A little comment about bending stress.&nb
I just completed all of the benchwork for my new layout (except for the helix) using 1x3s ripped from 8x4 sheets of birch plywood. Although the plywood was $50 a sheet, the costs were comparable when you consider that I could get about 18-20 boards out of one sheet. Also, the quality (no warping or twisting now) and strength (no warping or twisting later) can’t be beat when compared to typical pine boards. Jamie
I’ve always used 1x4 pine for my layout legs and framing with never a problem. Heck, for the past 15 years or so I’ve used the same 1x4’s for several layouts and game tables. Two 1x4’s attached at a 90 degree angle using 2" wood screws is about as solid a leg as you can come up with.
Mainetrains [banghead]
That’s what I have used also. Recently, I experimented with 1x3’s for legs in the L shape because I had some and they work well also.
Enjoy
Paul
I used 4x8 sheets of 3/4 plywood that I ripped into 3 1/2" boards. I also made the legs from the same boards, arranged in an L shape. It saved me a lot of money and everything is square and straight. I would not recomend doing this unless you own a table saw. Also, It adds a lot of extra labor to the process. I was willing to spend the extra time in order to save the money, which I preferred to spend on other train goodies. I built 2x4 foot tables, that I bolt together with carriage bolts. Everything can be unbolted and disassembled, so that I never have to build bench work again. At least I hope so.
My Yuba River Sub is built with 1x3" all the way–legs, braces and supports. But I’m also using 2" extruded foam as a base (with bracing every 12" under the foam) and though it’s a fairly large garage layout (24x24’) I haven’t had any problems with warpage or sagging. But then all my scenery (and it extends about 4’ above the 0’ elevation of the layout and track is supported by WS risers and foam forms. It’s light weight, but I wouldn’t recommend my type of construction for anyone using a plywood base–I’d go a little thicker on the bracing lumber. But for my ‘foam’ Sierra Nevada, it’s worked very well for me for the past 7 years.
Tom [:D]
Thank you all for the great ideas, especially about the metal studs. I’m an electrician, and have some experience using them. We’ll see how it goes!
Dan, I did not read the answers that where posted I just skipped to reply.
DO NOT USE 2 X 4’S THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A STRAIGHT ONE!!!
If there where two things I could do over it would be the following.
No bench wider than 3 feet unless it is free standing.
Use 1 x 2 that are finished. Other words milled so they are straight.
Only thing worst than a 2 X 4 in model rail roading is a Tyco pancake motor engine.
Cuda Ken