I’m in the process of building my main passenger station. This is to be the focal point of the layout and the most important part in operations. I’m using the Milwaukee station with 4 sheds so it’s pretty big. My question is this.
Is it OK to let the mainline run through the station with some freight traffic? I don’t like it but I can not come up with an other way except putting the mainline behind the station house which for me looks even worse. Alternatively I could move the station house to the side of the bench that is closest to the viewer but that feels even more wrong since that would block out the trains for almost two feet of track and creating issues with access.
What other options could be possible? The passenger tracks need to be able to get back on the main at the end of the station. At least some of the tracks. I’m using six tracks for the passengers by the way. So lowering the main before the station and running it below ground is not an option. This is also at the end of the line and will culminate in a turntable, roundhouse and so on. Then after that it goes in to the workshop area where I will be able to turn whole train sets around. But that forces the mainline to be close to the wall when leaving the station area.
Yes, you just have to make sure the clearances are wide enough for freight cars, vertically that anything on the platform covers will clear the tallest car or engine and that the platforms, if high level will clear freight cars and engines with large cylinders or snowplow pilots. On the PRR freight trains operated through stations all the time.
St.Paul Union Depot is/was set up in such a location that most railroads passenger trains backed in or headed in/backed out; it was on one leg of a wye. However the leg of the wye the depot is on is also the Milwaukee Road’s old “shortline” to Minneapolis, so Milwaukee Road trains and other RR’s that use the Milwaukee depot in Minneapolis instead of the Great Northern depot (like Rock Island for example) would stop at the depot and then keep going ahead to Minneapolis when going west. Milwaukee freight trains used that line too, so it wasn’t unusual to see a mix of freight trains and passenger trains around the depot.
Generally if possible you’d want to set it up so you have at least one or two tracks right next to the depot that are reserved for passenger trains, or have a couple of stub end passenger tracks with thru tracks for the freight trains, or some set-up so passengers aren’t forced to walk over the freight line tracks to get to and from the station.
The passenger station in Harrisburg, Pa, has freight trains running through it all the time. The trains are running from the Harrisburg yard West over the Susquahanna river then either north to Buffalo or Altoona or south to Hagerstown. Md.
I remember being in Chicago Union Station before Amtrak and saw an Erie-Lackawana switcher heading North on the track closest to the Chicago river. The Pennsylvania Railroad mainline goes through the Pittsburgh, PA station. Erie, PA Union Station waiting room is at ground level and tracks are up at second floor level. The platforms served all four tracks and freights going through the station tracks are still common today. The Florida East Coast mainline was two tracks on the South side of the Jacksonville Terminal Company property.
Where traffic density and other considerations justify it, there may be a dedicated freight track between two passenger tracks, with the platforms outside the triple track. That is the configuration I have ended up with at my primary station, Tomikawa. Since it’s entirely possible to have an up freight and an up passenger train waiting for a down train to clear the single track to Haruyama, the third track will undoubtedly prove very useful.
The prototype I follow had the same configuration at Agematsu - 3 tracks between two platforms.
You said there were six tracks for passenger. Do you have adjacent tracks for freight trains? If so that is okay, and it was a common to have freight and passenger tracks side-by-side in large cities. If not, you could go ahead and run feight trains through the station to save layout space.
I want to ad a seventh track for freight traffic. The problem is that it have to some how get back in against the wall in just a few feet if I do. It simply messes up all my plans. If I where to be able to push the station back a 10 feet I would be able to do it. But none of those plans are very good in comparison to just letting the freight trains move through the station and then on to staging.
Do you plan to actively use all 6 through tracks for passengers? Yes, the train shed pushes you in that direction, but operationally, is that really practical?
You could put a fence down the middle of the far platform, so that passenger access to the 6th track was blocked, and then use that track for your through trains. If you add a number of baggage carts and mail sacks to that platform, you could operate under the assumption that the passengers would unload on the side nearest the station only, while the far side was reserved for baggage.
I plan to use all of them. This is the big thing on my layout and their will be everything around the station that is needed for passenger operations. Car washer and REA buildings and so on. I plan to let two tracks be through tracks. The other four will be stub ended. I’m quite certain that I will be able to put them to good use since I have a LOT of passenger equipment that needs to be operated. Some long trains will just be passing through but I will runs a lot of locals as well. And of course an excursion train led by 4-4-0.
I will be getting my track this week so hopefully I will be able to lay the track out and see how I like the looks of it. I know what fits and so on but I want to be able to see the finished buildings all together before I decide on what is most appealing.
you have a good idea about a fence. But I can see a different use since the problem is that the through traffic have to be on the track closest to the depot. But I could use that idea for mail deliveries I guess. I could then have a REA building close to the platform.
I just had another thought. Perhaps, your choice of stations requires the building to be next to the tracks, and take up space. The Walthers Unions Station kit sold in recent years can be built above the tracks to save space. Platforms and tracks could then go beneath the station. Would that help?
I have considered moving it. But I don’t think that it would look good above it. I could place it at the end of the stub tracks. That is a possibility that I have considered. It’s more the fact that I think it will look the best along the sheds. And since I’m really interested in that this will look good that is a major priority.
In Johnstown, the passenger platform was placed between the two middle tracks of the Pennsy 4-track mainline. The current Norfolk & Western still uses the same setup except it is now a 3-track mainline.
Thus, through freights function as a “mainline run-around” of passenger operations, but only twice a day eastbound and twice a day westbound.
The mainline is on an “elevated” but solid-ground roadbed to reach a height above the flood plain => Johnstown Floods of 1889, 1936, and 1977.
So, to board a current Amtrack passenger run, you proceed undergroud from the back of the “union station” (which also acts as a part of the mainline retaining wall) to the steps taking you up into the mainline train platform.
I have a Green Max N Scale Series No. 15 platform structure to do a mild rendering of this scenario for a passenger platform to be placed between a 2-track Pennsy Class I mainline surrounding the interurban CR&T.
From a track design perspective, this is a quite efficient use of layout real estate for a passenger interchange, between a CR&T drop-off at the front of the union station and a Pennsy pick-up above (+) behind the union station, plus not to mention doubling-up as a Greyhound SceniCruiser depot.
Stuper thought: Have we tried/thought about loose flex track, a shed, (for planning time and this application, one should do you) and the station in the rough location, and try moving the station to the stub ends, or above, or even staggered to combat the percieved image in the head that always throws us off? It always comes out slightly different in real life than in the mind.
BTW, why put a beautiful station up against the wall? ANd if pushers come to shove, stations can be moved to be reached
I’m waiting for the track to arrive. I’ve built the station and one of the sheds so that I can experiment. Today I also installed the particle board that the station will be put on. Before that(I finished 10 minutes ago) I really didn’t have the option to try things out.
The reason for putting the station against the wall is easy. It’s huge. If I put it up front I won’t see the trains on the station in two feet. But as you say. Sometimes somethings will look better that way then I could have imagined.
My new layout will have the New Haven Union Station as it focal point. The four track mainline from the West enters on the right and the two double track lines to Boston and Hartford/Springfield exit to the East on the left.
The center two tracks (1 & 2) go straight through the station to and from the Cedar Hill hump yard. Tracks 4/6, 8/10 have passenger sheds between them as do tracks 3/5, 7/9. There is a subway from the station that runs under the tracks with stair ways that rise up into the platforms for passenger access. “Hairpin” fencing runs throughout between each pair of tracks to prohibit passengers from crossing the tracks.
The station building is a massive 24 x 48 inches in HO gauge and is in front of the station trackage. Since the length of the station trackage is about 24 feet I am not concerned with view blockage, and this was the only vantage point for viewing this scene in real life.
Big rusty. You seem to be a man of my liking. I will be using roughly 27 feet from where the tracks start to split up for the station until they close up again and leave for staging. But withing that there will be a turntable, coaling, water, well you know, the normal stuff.
Do you have any plan over your track arrangements? How long will your sheds be?
I’ve been considering now to put the station in front of the tracks. It will probably look OK and that would solve my problems. I’m also considering some kind of under-earth walkway. Do Walthers sell anything like that? I seem to remember something like that. Tomorrow I will be making the final assembly on the bench work where the station is going to be. That will probably help me make up mind. At least I know now that in a pinch I can go with the freight line running through the station.
The four tracks at each end branched via switches to offer access to each of the station tracks. Where the throat tracks end, the platform tracks are straight, which is where the sheds begin or end for the most part.
I forgot to mention that on the West end there is a multi track coach yard and car washing facility that has access to the station trackage via two double slip switches. Coaches were added or removed depending on traffic requirements.
Abutting the station on the west end was a three track motor storage area, where the electric engines that arrived from NYC were serviced awaiting their return assignments. Steam or diesel took over there for the journey eastward making for interesting engine changing operations.
Also, trains were split east bound, with each section going to either Boston or to Hartford/Springfield. Westbound the H/S cars were tacked on to the Boston train for the trip to NYC. There were two S-1 or similar switchers that were kept busy doing all that work in the late 40’s and early 50’s.
Lastly REA, baggage, sleepers and diners were either added or removed at New Haven.
My plan is to slowly rumble the 100 car freights that ran between the car floats at New York Harbor and the Cedar hill classification yard through the station into staging representing the hump yard, and into similar staging at the New York end as they were a common sight going through on a regular basis.
The Atlanta, Georgia AMTRAK Station also known as “Peachtree Station” or “Brookwood Station” depending on who you ask has a double track NORFOLK SOUTHERN mainline beneath the station. The station itself is elevated above the tracks but the platform is accessed by stairs located between the tracks. It is served by the Amtrak Crescent.
