I’ve been an HO east coast modeler since 1962 and have built several HO railroads, but recently fell in love with On3 narrow guage railroad modeling since I have been working part time in Boulder CO for the last year and one half. My current HO layout is fairly large at over 2800 sq. feet. I can not properly describe it, but if interested, please log onto www.zanestrains.com .
What I thought mountain railroad modeling has been about, now has me re-defining this. I have read several photo books about this area…Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and On3, but until being there in person, did the reality and the beauty set in. This summer I rode the D&S from Durango to Silverton and back, and then the Georgetown Loop which was great , but really just a few steps beyond an amusement park ride in length.
My questions are about the practicability at my age of 72 to rip everything out and start over. The plan would be to strip all down to the basic bench-work and bus wiring, Then how to either trade or sell what I presently have. Would a private sale, auction, take all to many shows, sell peace meal or what ever be the best way to proceed? Since I co-run the Timonium MD train show, and if asked this question, Id probably say…sure, rent some tables and sell your trains…but is this really practical? My wife and several of my model RR buddies think my groundhog ain’t fully baked, but my favorite slogan or saying I learned from my favorite uncle 50 years back has been my guide through life…“life ain’t no dress rehearsal.”
I have often felt that S gauge is the perfect size. On3 really is S gauge in size, but of course not in scale. Sn3 would be HO in size using the same proportionate rule which would rule out Sn3. Also there is the being able to see factor at my age.
Some of you readers must have gone this route, and any good suggestions would be greatly appreciated by me and possibly others.
Howard, what weight do you think you should assign to the notion of “practical”? Is the hobby sufficiently fluid for you at this point in your life that it would not be more practical to stick with what you have, or would it not be much of a stretch over the next 24-30 months to take a serious stab at a larger scale?
Or, let’s look at it this way: how much zip have you had for the hobby as a player, and not as a recent mentor/organizer/observer? If you feel the call to return to the earlier pleasures of building and learning as you go, and then reaping all the rewards, how does sticking with your current circumstances support that orientation?
There isn’t much available in S scale, although you might be in a position to call in some markers and have some stuff made for you. On the other hand, On30 must be better fleshed out as a niche in the hobby? Do you wish you had larger trains to enjoy, better lighting, a less ambitious, but more representative layout of what you have witnessed and come to appreciate over the past 15 months or so?
Yesterday is gone, Howard. Today is pretty well hooped. What is on your plate tomorrow?
you have raised a question which faces us all. 20 years ago, modeling in Z scale was perfectly fine for me, as my eyesight was much better then, and my hands were much more stable, than they are nowadays. Today, at the age of “only” 54, I would not be able to cope properly with delicacy of that scale anymore, even N scale is to small for me.I am currently into HO, well, to be correct, OO gauge, as I model British prototype. Even in that scale, I start to encounter physical limitations, which sometimes take away the fun.
Space limitations and lack of funds prevent me from moving upward into larger scales. I very much like the wealth of detail possible in those larger scales, I also like the chance to do a lot more scratchbuilding, as the parts are not as tiny anymore. Modeling in larger scales requires a different attitude, a strict following of a “less is more” attitude, but a much higher degree of attention to detail. I have seen many large scale layout, which looked to clean, to “sterile”. In O scale, even bird droppings are getting important…
If that´s the road you want to go, do it. Being 72 is no hindrance, but an opportunity.
Ripping up your wonderful layout will hurt, and selling off your collection will again hurt. You´d be surprised, how little you will get for your prized items, which have been dear to you for many years. This is regardless of the way you select, be it “the bay”, or be it selling at shows. Don´t expect to recover more than 25 - 40% of the original price. Use all kinds of channels to sell your equipment one by one. A lump sum deal will get you less.
I am a curious guy - keep us posted on your decision and developments.
I agree that S is the perfect size. I started in HO which I found too small and moved to O which was nice but requires more room for a layout than I have. I went into S about 17 years ago and find it to be a nice compromise between HO and O. There is a lot available in S, with a pretty good selection of cars and structures. The only real lack in S is that there are not many steam locomotives. A number have been made in brass over the years, but non brass, scale are currently 2-8-0, 4-6-2, 4-6-4, 4-8-4. There is also a kit for an 0-6-0.
I couldn’t imagine tearing down that gorgeous layout of yours for all the tea in china! However, that said, it is your layout and you’re the one that has to feel happy and satisfied with what you have and what you’re doing in the hobby (and in life). One thing you might consider, if you have the space, is to build a starter section and see how you like it. And then assuming you do, go from there. You don’t necessarily have to tear down your old layout all at once. Meaning you don’t necessarily have to make a mad dash to the hock shop to get rid of it.
But what the other folks are saying-- as well as your own experience (I know you have considerable)-- is true. Don’t expect a whole lot of return unless you have the time to sit and wait it out, and even then only a bit more. Its also possible that given who you are and what your layout is that there may be people who would like to own a chunk of the Piermont Division. Though how you would work that out exactly I’m not sure. I know it sounds good but the reality is that it rarely works out that way. I know I’d love to have your basement!
If you decide to sell your stuff though, you’re coming into the best season for selling on ebay-- in another month or so ebay will be awash in the Xmas buying frenzy. And generally most stuff sells a little easier and for a little bit of a premium over the rest of the year-- not a huge amount more, but enough so that if you have a lot of stuff to sell, it would add enough to the overall to make it worthwhile.
Whatever you end up doing though, I’m sure it will be interesting, imaginative, and spectacular in the end!!
Many thanks for the photos and insight. I’'m fully aware of On2.5 and what can be done with it, but my real love is the scenery and building cars and sometimes locos. I’m fascinated with the ex D&RGW K-36,K37 and K-28 choo choos. Bachmann stuff is quite nice, but they are RTR…not quite what I want to do. I also look forward to laying code 70 track as it looks perfect with On3.
Years back I converted one of the 10x20 bedrooms into the start of an On3 layout, but found it hard to serve two masters. Since the HO layout was far more involved, the On3 was sold. At the time, I had six 2-8-2’s and around 30 cars I had built. I never got to the senery phase. Perhaps if I did, I may have continued. Also I had at the time never visited the real thing. I often wanted to, and was in the area several times, but I was working as a corporate pilot then, and most times never left the airport.
Possibly I may again convert part of my home to On3 and since the HO Piermont Division is 95% complete, finish it (or come close) and keep it for open houses and for others to share and enjoy. This could work now for this reason and my newly found fire lit under my butt.
I would not be selling the HO to recover costs, but to make room for the larger scale.if I decide to rip out the Piermont.
Folks have asked about my age, and if I really want to start over at this juncture. I laugh at this as I’m in fine shape and it seems the more I play with my train set, the younger I feel (look?..that’s another issue!). Stress, I feel is the foundation of all illness, and modeling or any hobby that requires manual dexterity often reduces stress if not completely. As an experiment, I have checked my blood pressure after of hours of working on the railroad in any capacity (except wiring) and sure enough…80/120. Other times…still OK, but not pegged on the brass ring.
Didn’t Koester rip out his magnificent mountian coal hauling layout to start over with an entirely different theme? He
For the record, I did read both sites and found them excellent and quite informative about 55n3, but my thread was about the pitfalls of changing scales, best way to accomplish, and the sanity question…not about your excellent endeavors. Also if you read my posting, my interest were the incredible and exciting senery that could be done…not about equipment. although I found your models first class and rather exciting.
I’ll refrain from additional postings if this is the kind of sarcastic replies I’ll receive.
Ahem. I would suggest that Howard wouldn’t be asking if he were happy…not if he weren’t. Even then, we don’t know that he isn’t necessarily happy, just that he has discovered a new theme, knows something about it, is intrigued, and is actively seeking information from others who may have gone through the exercise of “jumping scale”, or just starting a new railroad in any scale.
Surely there will be other comments worth considering if we are patient.
Howard! now don’t make me come down there…lol seriously my friend not only isn’t your groundhog half baked but it’s not even a groundhog it’s a skunk! For you to dismal and do away with the Piermont would be nothing short of sacrilegious. Do you recall what you said to me the last time I saw you at the Timonium show and told you I had just visited a famous fellow NJ model’s layout Paraphrasing how could he tear down that beautiful layout he had up for so many years. Okay all that ho ha aside I fully understand your passion and desire to work in S scale or even HOn3 for that matter. I too have often thought that it would be a much better scale for me to model with my arthritic fat fingers and hands that resemble bear paws I have one option that you don’t seem to have and that is a lot more room to either build or put up a structure of some sort to house a new railroad. That will eventually happen when the finical wear withal returns to my bank account.
I think this would most definitely be a worth while pursuit for you and bring new life into those modeling hands of your. We both know model railroading is what keeps you and most of the rest of us young so of course by all means this undertaking will put you most likely way past the 100 year old mark. It ma cause your poor wife to pull her hair out of her head but she’s a smart woman she’ll find a way to deal with you.
My thoughts are for you to possibly look into something along the lines of what “The Model Railroad Club” of Union, NJ did.I am sure you know of them as most of them sure know you. I would look for a building some where close that would suit your needs and in this market there should be a lot to pick from. An look into seeing if you can donate it to the county or some how have it listed as a museum or public education center like the guys up in Union did. The handed over the deed to the property to the township I can’t tell you the nuts and bolts of the whole transaction but the gist of it is the county now owns the building a
In a couple of months I’ll be 70.The last decade has been happiest of my life and I am keeping my fingers crossed for the future.We are closer to the inevitable ,no question, but you could also be 19 and the only survivor of an aircraft accident,like I was.Live life as though there are lots of tomorrows as far as your hobbies are concerned ,if you are lucky enough to have good health and the money to do it,I would say go for it ! Cheers! John.
I find it interesting that Howard specifically stated On3, and yet folks are assuming he wants On30.
Howard - when I took up narrow gauge (10 years ago, West Coast variety), I looked carefully at the various scales and gauges available. I had had HO and 3 rail O layouts, and had enjoyed both.
I ended up choosing HOn3. Not because it has the best variety of equipment (On30 actually has more), but because of the scenic possibilities. Structures and trees can be close to full scale; I wouldn’t have to settle for caricatures and suggestions in my limited space. The final incentive was availability of old, lower quality “junk” rolling stock and locomotives that could be built/rebuilt into something nicer.
I considered Nn3, but that was too small for me in my '50s. My ability to manage that many tiny, tiny parts wouldn’t be there. And I do like to build most of my models, mostly from kits.
Sn3, while ideal in many respects, was just too expensive for me.
In On3 and On30, the structures and scenic elements (trees and streams in particular) had gotten too big for my limited space. Otherwise, I probably would have gone to On3.
my thoughts, your choices
…modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it’s always 1900…
Allegheny 2-6-6-6 has some good ideas and certainly much insight into my dilema. When I began in HO in 1962, it was on my honeymoon which was on a weekend pass from the Army in Alabama. I had thought then that model trains would be just a pleasant memory as I grew up with my dad’s huge (95’‘x 16’) O gauge layout…but it was his and he tore it down in 1961 when I graduated from college and went into the Army… thus selling our large house in NJ.
I discovered my passion while on this honeymoon by purchasing RMC with the cover story being about John Allen’s Gorre and Daphetid RR. I wound up spending the entire weekend just reading and fantisizing about building such a layout…or something similar on this grand of a scale…(Yeah, Brian, my groundhog really is half baked…that was the proof!) My new wife was a saint for putting up with me, especially on Sunday morning when I went looking for a hobby shop in Panama City and Fort Waton Beach. Before this, I had briefly considering making Army avaition a career, but then decided to just complete my 8 year obligation and get out to finally build such a layout. I have done this and found it somewhat anti-climatic now, although completely satisfying and challenging!!!
This haunting passion has again reared its head. Not only was I turned on with the scenery possibilties, but 1:48 in general. I have been building structures (and now the pike) for a rather large layout in Boulder which of all things is Hi-rail or O gauge, My client had purchased my book from Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and flew east to meet me wanting something similar, but in Hi-rail. Hi-rail is nothing to look down upon as it is growing greatly in popularity and can be scale in every aspect except for the three rail track, oversized flanges and couplers. This layout in Boulder, I’m hoping will further close the gap between Hi-rail and what is referred to as tin plate. The owner plans to publish a photo story after completion.
