Besides MTH, most locos don’t have smoke units, and neither do any of my BLI steamers .
Now I have seen the Athean Big Boy get fitted with a unit, but it doesn’t simulate train smoke as well as MTH does on several of their locos, the athearn model produces what looks like thin cigarrette smoke, there is no synchronized chuff and smoke either, just thin whisps, appearing as though they are coming from a moving candle.
I have heard before from others that smoking HO engines are not a good idea because it can leave oil residue throught the engine which can start to mess things up, is this true?
Or do most model railroaders simply consider a smoking engine to be ‘toyish’, thus making it too much trouble to go into this area in the first place. Is that one of several factors that sets us apart from the Lionel crowd? (obviously the third rail does not to mention the price and space that O gauge requires)
How come most HO people don’t seem that concerned about smoking engines? We obviously care about realism and don’t consider ourselves to be part of the ‘toy train’ crowd, and smoking is prototypical for steamers.
Oh, and can you imagine if N or Z scale people wanted smoke? Is that even possible?
I don’t think H0 smoke has ever looked very realistic even when syncronized, it always looks as you described, cigarette smoke and toy-like, which most H0’ers I think try to avoid. As you also mentioned, the oil residue does get everywhere, track & scenery. With those considerations, smoke is better left to the immagination or Photoshop. Only live steam looks like live steam.
Imagine a Big Boy puffing out prototypical smoke as it goes around a layout! Filling the air with smoke particles, and the average enclosed layout room becoming filled with a smoky haze! Boy what fun! Cough! Cough! Cough! Eyes watering, throat irritation and goodness knows what’s happening in your lungs! What fun!
I often wonder if the guys with recent O scale MTH and Lionel engines that have smoke capabilities, with large reservoirs to hold lots of smoke fluid, and fans that force the smoke out in large quantities (steam AND diesels!) actually run them very much when operating on their home layouts.
Our local club has two members who own such equipment, and we’ve had to ask them not to run the smoke units at our annual shows. The show is held in a fairly large venue - its about 100’ by 70’, yet the smoke from their trains could be smelled all through the place. Dealers with tables near their layout have complained of having to breathe in the smoke all day during the show, and some members with breathing problems and allergies had problems too. So imagine doing this in a typical small home layout room! Sure sounds like fun!
I love the smoke coming from the bottom of the loco, or from the cylinders. Maybe they could have it come out of the whistle too! Since everyone is complaining about the smoke, I wonder if anyone has tried to use water and steam for this effect? I also love the smell of coal burning, but that might be a stretch.
How about black smoke coming out of the exhaust from a diesel?
Yeah, just figure a 11 by 9 ft. room with 3 steamers smoking. Need to put your fog lights on pretty soon…Btw, here in Germany you can buy the smoke fluid with the scent of hot oil, coal and steel - how close can you get to the real thing?
I let my steamers smoke now and then, but keep the room well ventilated. So far I have not encountered any breathing problems - some glues I use are worse!
At this year´s Nuremberg Toy Fair, KM 1 has just presented their newest model with steam blowing through the whistle. Their Diesel locos also have a smoke unit, but the smoke is not black - yet. Who knows what they will come up with next - the guy who runs it is nuts!
Good points, I myself like the smell at the train shows, but I could see it getting old pretty fast if you ran them in your small den on a regular basis.
I quit cigs 2 years ago, and I wonder if this would undo some of the health benefits of that. Something to think about…
And the oil residue, I wouldn’t want it affecting my BLI steamers on the layout, you guys really think it would over time?
Also, Rapido has a steam generato car coming out that uses steam.
That;s cool.
There is merit in the smoke thing. But ironically, the only engine to have bothered me, including live steam and o scale in doors, was an HO MTH Pennsy. The only one to have triggered my Asthma, and the only thing in YEARS to do so.
Smoke is like sound. You don’t want too much, but for a lot of us, it fills a niche. It may not be the right sound, but having something close to actually sound a whistle at the approach to the wired up crossing is fun. Mself, I;ve been headsketching taking the motor and or weights out of my Lionel Amtrak Daylight and putting in smoke for the cylinder cocks, top vents, and the smoke itself. The problem i see is that the whistle wouldn’t heat up fast enough to be on que.
My opinion about HO smoke is the same as my opinion about HO sound:
If the effect isn’t truly prototypical, why bother?
The prototypes for my steamers were hand-fired with low-grade coal, so the smoke was black, not white. Also, when working upgrade, it came out in towering clouds, not wimpy little whisps. Needless to say, I’m not holding my breath waiting to see that effect in anything smaller than large-scale, coal-burning live steam.
Another facet of the same flawed diamond - the residue wouldn’t do a thing for any part of the layout, rails, rolling stock or scenery. Not to mention the effect of the particulates in the air of a small, enclosed space on people with breathing problems…
There was a question about getting the desired effect with water - soggy scenery, anyone. Never mind the impact of moisture on anything electrical…
'Way back in the dark ages I had a Lionel loco that smoked. I think I used a total of two smoke pills during the entire time that I owned that locomotive…
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with silent, smokeless steam locomotives)
The last time I ever owned a smoking loco was when I was a little kid, my lionel hudson had smoke fluid, of course, we didn’t run it on a layout, just on the carpet.
I’m probably just romanticizing the past, I don’t want to destroy my track, scenery or engines just to attempt to experience my childhood years again.
Second, I will add a new thought to this, which applies to sound as well as smoke. If every model on the layout does not have these features, than the illusion is at best, way less effective. The best looking model railroads are those where everything you look at is in balance with all the elements around it. Too much detail one place and too little right next to it is damaging to the effect. Better that both pieces be moderately detailed, or in this case better to not have these things at all since you are not likely to have it on every loco and the effects are far from realistic.
The same is true with these “special effects”, once one loco has sound, your brain will expect all of them to have it, until you go crazy fr
I have to agree with both posters above. Look at the amount of smoke in the original video coming out of that locomotive. Running that locomotive in my layout room (16 x 12 feet) for just 5 minutes would mak
As far as I know the smoke fluid used here is not based on mineral oil. The stuff does not even have a hazard warning on it, although I would not drink it. I don´t know whether the stuff used in US is different from what we have here, but I have been running "smoker"s for more than a couple of hours without suffocating.
The Seuthe smoke units are the worst. The oil they use splatters out the stack (destroying your nice custom finish), the smoke is heavy and just lays around (that KM1 video demonstrates that exactly). Even though the volume may be impressive, its behavior still doesn’t look much like the real thing (which isn’t all white, anyway). And their cylinder cock steam (that discharge under the front of the locomotive) is just a steady stream, instead of the somewhat violent alternating blasts from the front and rear of the cylinders, which sometimes rival the steam and smoke coming from the stack.
Bottom line is, they (model smoke units) are unrealistic; the “smoke” (just oily vapor) damages paint finishes; it will, if used frequently, settle onto every surface of the layout, including the track itself; it requires frequent filling of the oil reservoir; and it ain’t good for the lungs!
Personally, if I’m going to ruin my lungs, I’d rather do it with real coal smoke (the good ol’ high-sulfur kind - cleans out the sinuses)! And I don’t care what “flavors” the smoke oil comes in, it don’t smell like the real thing! [:D]
Lionel, does have steam effects for the whistle and blow down, and it does come out on que and with enough pressure to look good, on their two new Vision Line, high end locomotives. They haven’t modeled the cylinder**** exhaust yet. And a LOT of steam locomotive exhaust was white, it wasn’t all black. Some were almost nonexisistent in visible smoke(on a Properly Fired Locomotive). I have read stories of photographers actually putting signs, Burma Shave style, along the right of way asking the firemen on N&W J class to “Please Make Smoke” for a photo.
As far as the smoke residue gets all over everything, I enjoy both HO, and 3 Rail O Scale, and I have noticed that the vast majority of people making this claim, are those who don’t use it, mainly those in HO. I have heard very few 3 Railers make this comment, but 3 Railers tend to be the ones that use smoke the most, in MY experience it is no where near the issue that many like to make it. I have never seen the damage or heard a 3 railer comment on smoke residue damaging any scenery. I can also state from personal experience that any splatter from over filling, or adding fluid to a powered up locomotive, has been an easy wipe to clean up, with NO DAMAGE to any painted surface, just does not happen( I suppose it could if you weathered with chalk powder or water colors AND didn’t seal it)
Yes, you can get smoke sented like coal, wood burner oil fired, diesel as well as other non-prototypical scents as well such as Christmas tree, Candy Cane, Cooki
Please forgive me for my choice of words, they were meant as harmless jest, no offence intended to o-gaugers. Believe me, I agree with everything you just said, so much to the point my brother has had to twist my arm to keep from leaving HO and going into lionel at certain points.
I have nothing against 3 rail trains, and many are not toyish at all but look more realistic than HO, not that there is anything wrong with enjoying toy trains to begin with. Heck, I even like Thomas the Tank Engine on television, with the moving eyes and puffing smoke.
Trains are indeed supposed to be fun, we shouldn’t get too hung up on realism so much so that it becomes a chore to work on the layout. That is why many times I have thought about becoming a “hi-railer”, running realistic looking trains on 3-rail track. I just don’t have the money for that…but I like to run realistic looking trains, running them is the fun part, with all the lights and sound, realistically set or not. Building layouts can be tedious sometimes, but I am new and learning.
Thats some of the best smoke I have ever seen, but I would really like to know what he did to get his track and ballast that color, all rusted and brown, it looks amazing.
I am afraid of what that stuff will do to my lungs but it still looks great.
Apology accepted, there are a lot of people that might be surprised at what is available in 3 Rail, if they were just willing to look. Right now, I personally have Mostly O-Gauge 3 Rail, closely followed by a Huge collection of HO, some N Scale and some #1 Gauge (commonly, inncorrectly ALL refered to as “G” which is ONE Scale of about half a dozen scales, that run on Gauge 1 track) I malso had American Flyer S scale as a kid.
I am a member of a Large HO ( contradiction in terms?[%-)]) club but find that I am enjoying 3 Rail’s advantages more and more, and often don’t visit the club for months at a time now, before I missed few club nights that my work schedule allowed.
I Apologise, if my reply seemed to have taken too much offense, but I have seen too many examples of someone needing to degrade someone else’s choices , in order to justify their own. I have enjoyed many sides of the hobby, for more than 40 years, and they all have their advantages and disadvatages, I can debate many of them from experience, but prefer to let each enjoy there own.