After critically examining my proposed layout (approx 60’ x 20’ w. a possible 20x20’ extension) of two major varying altitudes and two different lateral grades, how steep, in inches per foot, can I lay track? I intend to pull no more than 3 cars–4 counting bobber–with a Porter-type engine. It will be a mining/logging layout. I don’t care a lot about scale grades, though it would be good to at least attempt to hold 'em to 6%.
I have my first engine coming to me: an LGB pumper car. I’m going to turn it into an 0-4-0 switcher woodburner. Perhaps w. saddle tanks, not sure yet. I’m looking for pictures of such an engine. I also need a pix of a backhead, for gauges and whatnot.
I like to suggest that keeping grades to 4% or less (4" over 100"–just over 8’) is really the most you want to do. You start treading into the 5 and 6% arena, and you begin to limit yourself. Even with the short trains you mention, the lightweight locos you plan on running won’t be good for much more than 3 or 4 cars on that grade.
As for backhead details, etc., try Trackside Details. An 0-4-0 from the LGB handcar will be an interesting project. Any particular reason you’re starting with that, and not something like Bachmann’s new 1:20 side-tank porter?
Most narrow-gauge had 4%, altho some notable exceptions were more.
Standard gauge, 2%.
Saluda was a REAL exception to that.
That works out to 4" in 100" for a 4%.
I have 150’ of continuous 4%, and in dry weather, my lead Shay (first battery r/c unit ever in the Bachmann Shay line) will pull 28-34 loads with no wheelslip.
Les:
When you exceed 4% grades you start having some problems with pulling power, especially with the lighter engines. If you introduce curves into the grade, again you are reducing the pulling power of your engine. You could do as I did when designing my layout, make a “ramp” from three lengths of 2x4’s and test the tractive effort of the engine on various slopes. (three 2x4’s end to end for a length of 24 ft, with 1x4 splicing at the joints. Prop one end up on bricks or lumber of various heights. Things to watch out for: 1) slipping drivers (drive wheels begin to spin faster than the engine is moving up hill - can burn out a motor or strip gears) 2) sliding (stopping the train on downhill run and watch it slide on the rails after the drive wheels stop turning - derailments and other damage.
I have over three hundred feet of track at 1.5% or less on my “main system”, however, the trolley line I’m working on to the top of the waterfalls will push 7.5%, it might even hit 8%!!! My long term plans include installing some LGB “racks” (as in cog railway) and bashing my streetcar to have a rack drive. Drop over to the LGB site and have a read on their rack drive trains. $500 is a bit much to spend for a “kit-bashed” unit.
I have 200 m track and i have 4 % grades on R3 curves and R2 curves and on a straight. The straight is ok, the R3 curve is just acceptable to me and the R2 curve i wish i didn’t have.
By unacceptable; i am taliking about slippage, running backward when stopped and loss of pulling power, especially if your track is even slightly dirty.
If you can help it do not have anything worse than R3 with a 4 % grade ; i wouldn’t do it again.
Some logging lines ran locomotives up more than 12%. Although rare, it is prototypical. Practical? No. The 6% you speak of is probably over the top. I’d try to stay with 4% or less, as described already.
KS: Okay, thanks. 4" in a 100". My math is rotting away with age. [xx(] In 60 feet, I’d have um … 720 inches x .04= 28 inches? Two feet plus fudge. Okay, that’d be about 4 feet total if you figure going and coming. Yep, this is definitely enough. Well, probably enough. Since I want both trestles and ‘cuts’, looks like I’m in fair shape.
It occurs to me that with cuts, I’m going to need forethought-out drains and culverts, ala real world. This is getting more interesting the deeper I get in.
I figured to weight the locos and cars anyway with lead, just to keep 'em on the tracks.
THe reason I’m starting with an LGB handcar is A) it was the first thing I found with a motor that I could afford, B) I’ve always intended to scratch-build as much as possible because I’m on SS and C) I once earned my living doing fine (small) work. (XP machinist). Now I can do it w/o pressure.
I’m betting on the fact that little actual ‘running’ will be done, and LGB and the rest have enough quality built in for many hours of average use, so the occasional overload shouldn’t be a serious factor. I’m more a builder than a runner, though I do like running.
I intend to build a trolley line in the future after the main line is up and working as I want it to. That’s probably a couple of years down the road. But I’ve always thought rack systems were 'way cool. No, I’m not about to drop $5 big 'uns for one, but I’m not above seeing how they do it and try to copy 'em.
My next purchase will be a subscription to GR, then the book on track laying, then the rails to start making some track, in that order. In the meantime I’ve got an Aristo switch to see if I can copy (I believes I can), a railbender to design and build, a jig to make ties, a trial run of track outside, etc. And a power pack. Yeah, gotta run wires, make blocks.
Les, Consider my layout, its intentionally going to be steep and twisted…Why?
Oh I dunno, probably because all the RRs I like feature sick grades and hellish curves. Guess I want some of that fun more than just the typical round and round.
Will be watching to see what your layout come along here, Good luck!
I hope to keep all my radii to 8’ minimum. I doubt it’ll be possible in some instances, but that’s what I’ve got in mind. That’ll be 16’ inside my 20’ boundary, which’ll leave some wiggle room. I have read a good deal on short radius problems and since I don’t intend to have a ton of rolling stock and want space, it ought to do.
I like the oddball stuff: work cars, blacksmith cars, crane cars, etc. The odder looking it is, the more I go for it. I will make a snowplow. I just gotta.
Here, to me, is the attraction of G: It’s big. (Well, duh, yeah.) Years ago I had an 027 layout. It was fun and I was young enough to work on it. But it got to be worth $$ so I sold it. Later I bought a potful of HO. Yo, mistake? Couldn’t see the stuff. But with G, you can use real power tools and see without a pair of telescopes.
May I suggest spend a few (thousand) hours reading the old postings on this forum. There is more information available, with pro’s and con’s on most everything. There are some most excellent discussions here and over on LSOL on road bed construction, rail quality, how well (or not) different types “weather” and or rot out. Yes, by all means get your subscription and books, but do a bunch of reading here on line!! I’ve even gone so far as to print the postings and put them into a notebook for reference and “light reading” on rainy nights.
I don’t think you are as comfortable with metric as i am but if you want to do easy grade calcs, get a metric measureing device and do all your length and height measurements in metric, as follows and it is the easiest thing to work out % gradeint.
Do all horizontal measurements in meters and all vertical measurements in centimetres and divide the height by the lenth and you will automatically have % gradient eg 4 metres with a crise of 20 cm = 20 / 4 = 5 % Do not do your measuremnts in imperial and convert them, as the conversion will just muddy things up.