May Trains of Thought

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

I was reading the May Trains of Thought today and found a few things in there that apply to me:

The statement about layouts being derailed by biting off more than you can chew is very true of my old layout. I never got very far and just kept building sections and never detailed them. (An nearly finished section, another unfinished section and many of the buildings from that old layout do exist on the new one, however.)

The section about tearing down the older gentleman’s layout reminded me about a gentleman I met when my Mom and now late Dad were living at a senior living complex. He had been a model railroader and had torn the layout down when he had to move there. When he found out I was a model railroader as well, he ended up giving me all his rolling stock, structures and a few other things. To date, I have integrated 4 engines, about 2 dozen freight cars and 2 buildings from that collection in one way or another. One engine was redone to match a prototype from my favorite railroad and painted for my protolanced road; the other three needed sublettered; a few boxcars needed reweigh information and 4 boxcars, 4 hoppers and a bulkhead flat were redone with new schemes to match prototypes. Not too bad all things considered.

2

I found “Trains of Thought” particularly interesting, as just over a year ago I took down a room size layout and disposed of most everything. Sadly, I knew no one to give the stuff to, which included a couple hundred kit built cars, and a couple dozen kit / kitbashed structures.

I sold them all on Ebay, and while I didn’t keep a record, I believe “my stuff” ended up in the majority of the 50 states.

While reading this article, I thought… “gee, I’d love to see what the buyers did with my stuff, and did they ultimately end up on a layout for others to enjoy”.

The fact that you are using the items your friend gave you is just outstanding! Please know that while you were made happy with those gifts, the gentleman was also made happy knowing his “stuff” went to someone that appreciated them.

3

Finally read the column.

I used to remove old layouts occassionally. I have not removed one in years now.

I have several structures from long-gone layouts saved for my next one. A couple of these are from layouts that were featured in Model Railroader magazine.

-Kevin

4

I’m not sentimentally attached to anything on my layout. Everything I bought or built was done for my own enjoyment. When I’m no longer able to enjoy them, I expect whatever can be salvaged to be sold for the benefit of my heirs but I don’t expect it will fetch more than pennies on the dollar. Whether my stuff ends up on somebody else’s layout isn’t much of a concern to me.

5

John Armstrong, who had and often designed VERY huge layouts (and was hired to do so) often warned against them, because both the roadblocks during construction and the continuous need for maintenance on a layout of any size had caused or contributed to so many people leaving the hobby.

Maybe too many such people have emulated John Allen when they should have emulated the late Ben King, who worked for decades on a surprisingly tiny layout that was finished to the Nth degree. King would spend the better part of a year just building a special camera to take a particular picture he had in mind for the layout. And his structure construction articles in MR probably take the cake in terms of granular detail and thoroughness.

I find my enthusiasm and thus ability to get work done comes in spurts. And the rate of spurt has definitely slowed to a crawl. I was and remain amazed at an old buddy who was an airline pilot. Those guys work several days and then have several days off. What he could get done on his layout (and on the detailing projects on his workbench) during those days off was just astounding. He did not drink coffee or Coke or any other carbonated sugary soda, so where he got his morning energies from I do not know. He did not drink any alcohol, which at least explains why and how he could get so much more done after supper than I can! [dinner]

Dave Nelson

6

I remember one of Ben King’s structure articles about a switch tower. I think you could have built an actual building (and passed code inspection) from the drawings that accompanied the article.

-Kevin

7

Looking back on my own layout history, once I became a homeowner, I talked myself into the myth that each house would be my “retire-in” home… three times! In the first two, I completed the plywood pacific stage, when a job move prompted a relocation. Now retired, I’ve gotten to that stage again and hopefully, this time, expect that I’ll progress to scenery and beyond. [:-^]

Lessons learned along the way. [:'(] We live in a very mobile society, and a large majority of post-baby-boomers will relocate several times before buying that elusive retire-in home. So building large room-sized layouts during the early-to-mid career years will likely result in gaining experience in layout demolition and salvaging.

Had I the chance for a do-over in my earlier years, I’d build a modular or sectional layout, that would fit in a small bedroom (10’x10"?) supported on removable L-girder frame sections. A track plan that is around the walls or utilizing twin reversing loops would provide continous running, some space for a small yard and modest switching and staging tracks. It would be small enough to “finish”, easily expanded to fit the next larger interm layout space, and maybe incorporated into the final layout.

But then again, few of us can resist the siren call of the large basement!

Jim

8

The space I have for the layout can be doubled if I choose and that was the plan when I started, however, since then I have decided the layout I have is large enough for the only reason of maintenance. The room is 15" x 24’ with lots of hindrances to workaround.

The layout is quite movable but not portable and can come apart quickly as it is put together with10/32 machine screws and T-nuts. The backdrop is also held on with screws and T-nuts The legs are freestanding and once I whip out all the screws with the drill in seconds I can lift the top off and the legs will remain standing. The track can be snipped at the joints when the time comes and the electrical can be snipped or in some cases, there are terminal strips at the joints.

Red lines mark the joints.

The large bench is 18’ x 6’ and can be carried out easily by two people. I can get it out of our current house, the question is can I get it into the new house if we move. If not, oh well.

The RH/TT can be unplugged and removed for a move.

The foam rockwork may or may not be saved but it is easy to redo it.

I am inclined to want to start from scratch with a new layout if we move, hopefully having friendlier room geography to take advantage of. If we move overseas (Vancouver Island) the cost to take it over there would mean it won’t be going and I would save the sea of foam on it and scrap the rest.

If I croak, I have told the kids to donate everything to a long-established club. The club can keep what they want and sell the rest at a train show. Things like my Hudsons and Canadian Pacific coaches are something the club would likely enjoy having, as they are bigger budget items a club may not be able to afford to own. Hopefully, the club would come and clear out the whole works so the family doesn’t have to deal with it. The rest or all o

9

I am always saddened when I read articles or posts like that. I am 51 and have started my “forever” layout. When people ask I tell them it is my 30 year project.

I Sincerely hope to be in the train room running trains the day I fall over dead, hopefully in somewhere between 45 and 50 years from now.

I have already told my nephew and my son that they can plan on having to deal with it once I am gone. I have told my wife if I go before her to just leave the basement door closed. I will NOT dismantle any of it. There will be enough money to hire a disposal company if need be.

Before someone suggests it is selfish, I will point out that I am doing the same for my 78 year old father. He has multiple buildings full of stuff that is dear to him. My sister lives 8 hours away so when my parents pass (hopefully many, many years from now) sorting through and disposing of everything will be a nightmare. Even knowing that I wouldn’t dream of suggesting he part with anything. It is WAY more important to me that he enjoy every moment of his life.

10

I don’t plan on ever moving again, but I’m realistic enough to know that if I don’t fall over dead, I’ll probably end up in a nursing home.

My layout will have to be dismantled by my kids or the people who buy the house, because like many of you, I plan to keep working on it as long as I’m upright.

Off topic:

My father died years ago after living in the same house for sixty-five years they built after WWII. I had to clean it out.

The part that really got me was a dresser drawer in his bedroom. It was kind of a junk drawer, with several old watches, cuff links, etc. There were some notes from WWII, some small trinkets, and several souvenirs from various places.

These things meant nothing to me.

However, they were important enough to my father that he kept them, some for over sixty years. How many times did he open that drawer, and some memory came to him of something that happened in his life that was important enough to keep a memento.

I don’t really have a junk drawer like that, but I guess my trains will be something my kids will see and realize how important they were to me.

11

John Armstrong’s advice is wise and I wish I would have seen that 20 years ago when I began my basement empire but I had dreamed of building such an empire when I retired, which I did before my 50th birthday and nothing was going to stop me. I thought it would take me 5 years tops to bring the layout to a level of completeness and from that

12

[quote user=“John-NYBW”]

dknelson

John Armstrong, who had and often designed VERY huge layouts (and was hired to do so) often warned against them, because both the roadblocks during construction and the continuous need for maintenance on a layout of any size had caused or contributed to so many people leaving the hobby.

Maybe too many such people have emulated John Allen when they should have emulated the late Ben King, who worked for decades on a surprisingly tiny layout that was finished to the Nth degree. King would spend the better part of a year just building a special camera to take a particular picture he had in mind for the layout. And his structure construction articles in MR probably take the cake in terms of granular detail and thoroughness.

I find my enthusiasm and thus ability to get work done comes in spurts. And the rate of spurt has definitely slowed to a crawl. I was and remain amazed at an old buddy who was an airline pilot. Those guys work several days and then have several days off. What he could get done on his layout (and on the detailing projects on his workbench) during those days off was just astounding. He did not drink coffee or Coke or any other carbonated sugary soda, so where he got his morning energies from I do not know. He did not drink any alcohol, which at least explains why and how he could get so much more done after supper than I can! Dinner

Dave Nelson

John Armstrong’s advice is wise and I wish I would have seen that 20 years ago when I began my basement empire but

13

Too bad you bring up this thought…[:D]

I have the same thought. I may move in a few years but should I expand my layout? I have been struggling. But the answer might be to do whatever I can do today and worry about a new layout later…

Jerry

14

Forgot to mention when I made my starting post that at some point soon I will be getting another collection of models, this time from my uncle. He had long ago told me that I would get a GP18 that he has. The family pretty much decided that it woud be all of it when the time comes as I am the only one in the family that model railroads. He models the same road as one of the ones I do but a previous era to the best of my knowledge. I’m fairly sure that I can use some of his items but Idon’t know how much.

15

Oh the joys of model railroading.

The time of a clockwork train set ruinning round the carpet floor.

An electric train set on the carpet floor. Being told not to do that as fluff etc will get into the workings. Other electric trains followed. Still not running on a board. Yet all was well. On leaving Leeds I left it all with family.

A layout on an old ironing board was great fun. Simple to erect and put away as the board had folding legs. A station, run-round, locomotive shed, goods yard, so simple to operate.

With house moves layouts in stable, attic and loft followed. Plenty of room. Just the ideal space; yet progress was painfully slow. Nothing was any where finished.

The ‘final move’ and a train room 11x8 give an inch either way.

An L-shape Scottish layout was born. Then altered to a U-shape and Sovereign Street appeared.

The line was extended to the fourth side and a bridge was built giving a continuous run.

This is the ‘final layout’. Scenery has been added and now I and my grandchildren just run trains.

Is the layout finished? The main part yes. Correcting my many errors, no!

As for using things from previous layouts? Many have made the journey with me.

Receiving things from family and friends? Some have made it to the layout, alot has not.

Many things I have given awayand have been received with gratitude.

The beauty of model railroading.

David

16

[quote user=“ATLANTIC CENTRAL”]

John-NYBW

dknelson

John Armstrong, who had and often designed VERY huge layouts (and was hired to do so) often warned against them, because both the roadblocks during construction and the continuous need for maintenance on a layout of any size had caused or contributed to so many people leaving the hobby.

Maybe too many such people have emulated John Allen when they should have emulated the late Ben King, who worked for decades on a surprisingly tiny layout that was finished to the Nth degree. King would spend the better part of a year just building a special camera to take a particular picture he had in mind for the layout. And his structure construction articles in MR probably take the cake in terms of granular detail and thoroughness.

I find my enthusiasm and thus ability to get work done comes in spurts. And the rate of spurt has definitely slowed to a crawl. I was and remain amazed at an old buddy who was an airline pilot. Those guys work several days and then have several days off. What he could get done on his layout (and on the detailing projects on his workbench) during those days off was just astounding. He did not drink coffee or Coke or any other carbonated sugary soda, so where he got his morning energies from I do not know. He did not drink any alcohol, which at least explains why and how he could get so much more done after supper than I can! Dinner

Dave Nelson

17

John, I got onto the “model just one town” theme several decades ago, it is in my opinion a better approach no matter the layout size.

I learned from other peoples layouts and my own not to make clearances over hidden trackage too tight.

While the access to the staging yards on my new layout is not all “perfect” most is real good. One yard will simply have an aisle behind the layout. The aisle will be covered with lift out scenery, but even with the scenery panels in place there will be nearly nearly a foot of clearance above the tracks and an 18" space to sit on a bench and poke your head up.

Another one will be a loop under a peninsula, with 8" to 10" of clearance and the whole center of the loop open.

I have a few places where I will need hatches, but I think some of the hatches can be left open and disguised by scenery.

I should note, all of the thru staging consists of places where the double track mainline expands out to 6 tracks total, two staging tracks for each direction, and there will be no main line crossovers in the hidden trackage - all one way traffic.

The one and only stub end staging yard will be be largely in the wide open and easily accessed - in my workshop area - 10 tracks.

My other thing is large curves, 36" is bare minimum mainline curve, hidden or visible. It is very much both an appearance and performance issue. You don’t want derailments? Start by not having marginal curves.

And even with 36" and larger curves with easements, I limit steam loco choices to a scale 21’ rigid wheel base, most of my passenger cars are 72’ long, my longest freight cars are 75’ early piggyback flats. I do have some 80’ heavyweight passenger cars, I do not have any 85’ streamlined cars.

Only true industrial trackage dips below the 36" radius rule.

Turnouts are all #6 and #8 on the mainline, and anywhere passenger cars or mainline steam travels.<

18

Interesting discussion. Each time I look at one of my track plans, I keep thinking I need to simplify. The new layout will be in a standard 20 ft container with inside dimensions of only 7’8" by 19’4". I’m using the container to provide a varmit proof housing for our farm’s shop building. And, so my wife and son and ship it off once I’m gone. If we ever decide to sell the farm, I can just truck the container to the new location. The hidden staging has been my biggest issue as noted by others above.

I posted a layout plan awhile back based on SP’s Burbank Junction. I’ve scrapped that because I wasn’t happy with either 1) low clearance hidden staging, or 2) extra hidden laps down to staging. So back to the drawing board. The new plan will have just two smaller towns, Northridge and Hewitt, on opposite sides of the container on a single track mainline. The “hidden track” will be open behind a low backdrop. One end of the staging yard will be completely open, with the other end partially covered, but easily accessible from the open container doors. The total number of turnouts drops from over 60 to just 32 which I think is much more manageable.

Ray

19

I was unaware of how shipping containers are being repurposed in a variety of ways. Just yesterday I saw how a company converts them into swimming pools/spas. They cutoff the tops and use the doors to get at the mechanicals for the pool and spa.

20

If they open the doors doesn’t that let the water out?