Hi
Has anyone out there used MDF (Medium Density Fireboard) instead of 3/4" ply on a layout? Is it OK? Or is ply still the best beacuse of it’s anti warp factor? I’m about to go out and buy my ply. A lot of the framework is built and I’ve been looking at MDF. Any experiences? Any reason why it’s a big NO NO? Any reason why it shouldn’t be used?
Thanks in advance
Barry [8D]
I can’t think of any big no-no factor, but I wouldn’t use it. Why? It’s much heavier than plywood and creates lots of nasty fine powdery dust when cut. It’s also prone to disintegrating if you get it wet – I don’t think it would fall apart or anything, but the surface might get funky if you’re and up using wet plaster or such on it as part of scenicking.
Mostly, to me, it’s a matter of 3/4 ply being just fine, so why fix something that ain’t broke? If you have a reason plywood isn’t for you, then maybe an alternative is called for.
I haven’t used, and don’t plan to. Here are ny reasons, others may or may not agree:
It is heavy.
It needs to be supported more than plywood. It will sag. Look at shelves made with the stuff after a while.
For me it is less friendly about taking screws.
I think all of these can be worked around, but for me it isn’t worth it.
Agreed, 100%. I used 1/4" for splines, and it was fantastic. However, it really is dense stuff, and therefore heavy. Also, to get into it with screws or nails, you will have far fewer “D’Oh!” moments if you predrill…adds to the work.
This is one of the few products that just does not work on a layout. Any humidity change and it will swell. If screw or nails do not spitout beforw, they will then. The sagging and warping are inevitible. Use plywood and pine boards for a trouble free layout.
Couldnt agree more. I used it on my old layout and the stuffs a pain. In fact, i cant think of any redeeming features that it has when used on a layout. Its the last material i’l be using on the new one.
Barry-
I have used the MDF on two layouts.
The 1st was a 4’x5’ layout for my son when he was 2yrs old. it is a simple loop with three turouts, one 1/2" rise to go over a bridge and two road crossings. I made it very very simple and the scenery is nothing more than paint, green for grass, blue for water, grey for the roads. no buildings, those can be added loosely. the layout lay on the floor and was slid under the full size bed when not in use. The MDF is NO louder than a layout on Plywood base. I have had NO chipping of the board, no cracking, no problems with expansion due to getting wet or humidity changes. the layout stood up against the 2yr old walking all over it whlie the trains were running, and also stood up against the newborn daughter. My son is now almost 6 and has moved on from that layout to the 4x8 in the basement. but the 4x5 still has not fallen apart at all. I used 0 glue to attach the cork and track to it, and I used light weight spackle to slope the incline and decline from the bridge all with 0 problems.
the 2nd layout using MDF is a different approach. its a micro layout, 1’x4’…the MDF has a layer of 1" Blue foam on top of it. I am using the AMI roadbed on top of the blue foam and the track is held down by that. again no issues with the MDF.
The MDF is heavier than plywood, yes, but it is perfectly flat and there are no knots and it paints extremely well. I did a small test too where i nailed the track down right on the MDF, the MDF is harder to drive the small track nails into, but once in, they wont slide out either.
If you have lots of it around with no other use, try some out. I would try to go with the 1/2" MDF over the 3/4" though as the weight is noticable. support will be needed with the MDF, but the plywood needs support as well.
Kevin
Thanks guys and thanks Ondrak.
Kind of interesting. I know that MDF is very heavy and a lot of people say it’s not fun to drill. I have used MDF around the home for other jobs and I must admit that what I like about it is that it’s very flat and doesn’t split. Mmmmm… interesting.
Cheers
Barry [8D]
Barry,
I’m using MDF on the HO layout I’m building at this time. When I started work on this layout plywood was very expensive here in Texas due to 2 hurricanes hitting us. What was available was really crappy quality too. That’s when I saw MDF for the first time at the local lumber place.
Yes, it’s much heavier than plywood and it does make a lot of fine dust when cutting. I use my vacuum cleaner while cutting and haven’t had much more dust problems than when I used plywood. It cuts very easy. The dust isn’t as bad as when I used Homasote for roadbed.
I’m using L-girders with 1x4’s for support. Most of the supports are between 14-20" apart. I screw the MDF to the supports with sheetrock screws. I heard it was very sensitive to water so I sealed the top surface with Minwax clear coat as a precaution.
I glued my cork to the MDF with Elmers Carpenters glue and nailed my Walthers code 83 track to that with Peco and Walthers track nails.
What scenery work has been done so far has not developed or caused any problems with expansion or any of the other warnings I’ve heard about the product.
I live near Houston Texas so I get to see a lot of humidity and it hasn’t shown any of the traumatic things everyone seems to be worried about.
Other than the weight I can see no problems using MDF for a layout.
Hope this helps you with your decision.
Roger
Wanna know why it won’t work well? Spray some water on a piece and come back in 15 minutes. You won’t need to ask any more questions. Liquids (humidity) and this stuff don’t get along!
I think some people are confusing MDF and the chip board that’s commonly used in furniture. I’ve used chip board for several non-railroad projects and it definitely doesn’t get along with water.
Roger
The same goes for MDF it gets messed up with water.
I used MDF for a layout one time. Never again! And before you say “You must have used chipboard or particle board”, no, I didn’t. I’m a handyman, one of my other hobbies. I know what LDF, MDF, HDF, particle board and chip board are. They all have the same failings. They’re heavy and they have zero tolerance for water or any other liquid for that matter. I tried a sealer on it at one time. The sealed surface stayed together well but the undersurface disintegrated. This stuff is well worth avoiding as a building material for layouts.
I guess I am getting confused with the water issue…
I am not going to say that it doesnt have issues when it gets wet, it does, it starts to expand and eventually it will break apart.
BUT only if there is constant water on the surface. I spilt water on the MDF board on my son’s 1st layout while i was working on it, (juice actually). I quickly dried the surface. It did show signs of expansion, I let it dry and sanded it back down. it never was a problem after that.
For the MDF to break up due to water, the water needs to stay there for a long time.
Another thing i just dont understand, why is water damage an issue anyhow? does anyone have real water in their layout? if so ok, dont use the MDF, but the occasional water spillage such as i had, will do some minor damage, but nothing crutial, you would have to have a lot of water for a long time on the sheet to cause real damage. who does that?
Cripe leave plywood wet long enough and the glue that holds the layers together will let go too. or it will grow mold in the wood. MDF will collect mold too, but it sands off easier than mold on Plywood.
I use MDF around the house for projects here and there, I am not talking about the chip board, MDF is a brown dense board that does create a ton of dust when cut, routed, or sanded.
there are a ton of 1/32 scale slot car tracks made with MDF too, mine will when i get started on it. I have see some routed layouts that have real water features on them too where the car drives through the water and spashes it all over the place. the little river is a plastic tub, but the water does splash all over.
I say if the guy has some MDF layin around and wants to try it. dont bash his idea, just let him know what might happen and let him try his theory out.
Kevin
Kevin -
I don’t think anyone’s trying to ‘bash his idea’ here. Mo
Exterior grade plywood is better in every single regard except cost. As for cost, ask yourself about the total cost per square foot of your finished layout - the difference in the baseboard stuff is essentially immaterial.
ah, now there is the perfect example of the prolonged water exposure that could cause damage. I now agree, if you are gonna build using plaster method, you dont want the base board to warp or get damaged from the water in the plaster mix.
this point was never made in any of the other posts.
you point is well made and supported.
kevin
Actually the first response mentioned plaster scenery. I think you may have taken the responses suggesting that MDF was less than ideal personally, since you chose to use it. But I don’t think that anyone meant it personnally, they were just trying to explain why they would (in some cases) or would not use it. Some (I know I did this) even said there might be ways around the shortcomings, as long as you were aware of them (lots of support, predrilling, types of screw, etc.) As usual there isn’t a right way and a wrong way, just different ways.
My late father in law had a great saying: “Life is tough. If you’re stupid it’s tougher.”
Now I’m not calling anyone stupid, the point he was making was choices. We all have to make choices in how to pursue this hobby, and they’re all very personal. You may have a guy who can’t solder worth a damn swear by suitcase connectors, and a solder-master berating them. Both are right because both have a way that works for them.
So we’ve had a lot of repartee about MDF here. Most seem to think it would be the more difficult way to go. BUT it may be the “right” way for someone for other reasons specific to them. And if so, more power to 'em. Think of the extreme case: guy has a basement full of MDF and no money to buy plywood. He either uses MDF or has no layout… For him, MDF is unquestionably the right choice.
Enough yammering from me…
Kris
Regardless of how you do it, you still end up with a skinless cat.