Thanks.
I fitted 45+ Boxcars with P2K wheels no problems on a recent running session. I continue to ruthlessly convert the rest of my plstic wheels into metal. I do have two boxcars with plastic wheels on the test track right now but they are not considered part of the fleet.
I find them to quite good. They also add weight, which is a plus in some cases.
Alvie.
Just wanted to add this link to an article from Model Railroader about Using the Right Wheelsets
Guys,
For those of you that buy Athearn, be aware of early RTR cars. Some of you may remember my post back in Dec or January.
I bought a couple of “Early Run” Athearn RTR cars at a train show that came with plastic wheels. The P2K 33" wheels, to my shock, wouldn’t fit. According to Don Gibson, some of the wheels sets and trucks on these cars were the plastic Europeon type that you find on the Rivorossi cars, which are non-NMRA standard. I looked at the wheel faces and saw that familiar “convex” shape.
Fortunately Athearn did the smart thing and started using metal wheels on later runs of the RTR freight cars.[:D]
I winded up purchasing P2K truck sets for these cars to solve the problem.
I did learn a valuable lesson that when purchasing anything at a train show, a lot of the items may have been sitting in store shelves for 10 years or more, so it’s a good idea to check over an item thoroughly before paying for it. Let the buyer beware!
AntonioFP45,Also beware that some of the early RTR Athearn cars with metal wheels had the semi scale .088" flange.The cars now have the normal 110s(RP25s).I do not know how this came about but kinda wish Athearn kept the .088s.Of course these small semi scale flanges call for near perfect track work as I found out with one bad track joint I missed when I was laying track…[}:)][:D] Of course these cars showed me the error of my ways.[;)]
Hi Kev,
I am considered a newbie to the hobby (6 months theoretical and 3 months hands-on) and I have built a bunch of Accurail kits, and they all came with plastic wheel sets. One day I purchased an Athearn Caboose kit which had metal wheels. I could not believe how smootly it ran in comparison to the plastic wheels![:0]
The difference was measurable. I mentioned this to my LHS guy and he said this was to be expected. He also told me that plastic wheels will contribute to a build up of dirt on the rails as well, and recommended that I replace all my wheels with metal wheel sets. I was sceptical of a money grab and delayed my decision about two weeks. Then i went ahead and did it and I have to say I don’t regret the decision. My engines can pull more cars with metal wheels than plastic wheels. So my recommendation…go ahead and make the switch.
Trevor
Way to go, Trevor!
You’ve “indirectly” mentioned a side benefit that metal wheels offer: Less of a strain on locomotives! About 4 months ago I did a “break in” run with my P2K SCL GP9 on a friends layout. That one little Geep pulled a “chunker” of a train, especially considering that all of the freight cars had additional metal weights inside to bring them up to NMRA standards. But, each freight car also had P2K wheels. Smooth cruising all the way!
IMHO, had the cars still had their stock plastic wheels, I’m sure that the powerpack would have been feeling “warmer” to the touch as I pushed the Geep to full throttle several times!
TRUE. Basically breaks into 2 categories: NMRA and NEM axles. One brand may be looser or tighter in another brand.
FACT VS FICTION
ALL wheels roll freely out of the box - try it. The friction comes when you add the sideframes.
Flash is where two moulds meet - such as the outer edges. I have never found any inside a concave surface, however if the fit is tight, enlarging them reduces pressure.
DANGER. I use graphite with WALTHERS Passeger cars because graphite conducts electricity but. It can short out the insulating ring on conventional wheels. Conventional wheelsets need one insulated wheel.
METAL wheels were origially machined from brass to NMRA specs and performed better than plastic moulded ones where the main goal is low cost. With the superiority of machined wheels established, stamped metal wheels came onto the marketplace. They were ‘metal’ and went ‘clckety clack’ which was enough for some buyers.With lower cost goes Quality Control.
I bought 1 packet of the most popular brand (on this forum). I noticed my cars ‘wobbled’. Closer inspection showed 10 of the 12 sets had ‘wobble’. The man at the LHS said "all cars wobble"Putting in my ‘machined’ wheels removed all of it.
Conclusion: A
I had the same problem with an Athearn HO RTR car - one of the CSX cabooses (great paintwork, pity about the wheels…). They were set too wide (gauge) and as they’re a one-piece moulding it’s impossible to adjust them. I retro-fitted some spare 33in wheels from BB cars that had had P2k metal wheelsets fitted, and it now runs a lot better.
One trick I have found for situations where the axle is a slightly tight fit in the bearings - fit the wheelset, then press the bearings together with one hand while rotating the axle with the other. After a few turns the pinpoint axle ends will have reshaped the plastic bearings and the car will roll freely - cheaper than the specialist tuning tool!
I’ve converted 30 or so cars to metal wheels. I used both Life Like and Kadee wheels and I couldn’t tell the difference between the two.
Thanks for bringing up that point Don. I never had that problem, but then I try not over do it with any lube. If there’s that much graphite getting on the wheels, it’s on the rails too and it would cause the driving wheels on a loco to slip.
I do think however a dusting of graphite couldn’t carry more than a few milliamps. It would be like having resistor wheel sets. Is it enough to short out the interior lights?
Update:
I laid out a bit of graphite on a sheet of paper to measure the resistance and found resistance was infinity for a smuge of graphite with the test leads 1/16" apart. A resistance of 150,000 to 200,000 ohms was measured with a pile of graphite 1/32" high with the leads 1/16" apart. So, if there is enough graphite build up, it can cause a short of a sort.
Don,
Are you referring to the P2K wheelsets? Don’t hold back, it’s good to hear input about products. You’re very observant and likely notice things that many guys ( me included) might overlook or not notice right away. It’s good to know what “potential problems” to look for with a product. If there is a significant or performance difference between one product vs. another, I’ll moan and groan and then pay the extra buck or two for the better product. I keep locomotives and cars for years, so I might as well get them right the first time.
Based on your above response, I just started checking my freight car fleet. So far, one P2K axle that’s on an MDC hopper has a slight wobble when I spun it and looked at it with my eyes just a few inches from it. I’ll post my results after I check all of my axles, as there are quite a few.
The next set of wheel sets that may need changing are on the locomotive. The Athearn locomotive sintered wheel sets are also good at collecting garp. NorthWest Short Line NWSL and JayBee have replacements sets.
I have to say I haven’t noticed any wobble. Are we talking off center wheels (run-out) or wheels which are not perpendicular to the axis of spin (wobble). If I have noticed any wobble, I attributed it to too short of axles in the truck frame or the fact that the axels are plastic and may have been bent or warped. Checking for this problem is pretty easy to do, by giving the wheel set a spin, when they are first set in the trucks. I also let the truck roll down a grade to see how they roll, and watch the car when it is first placed in a train to see how it tracks and if there are any peculiarities. I agree, turned wheels will be truer, however, this is a more expensive way to manufacture and I am happy with what I get for my money with the LLP2K wheel sets.
Guys,Here is what I highly recommend…Try several brands of metal wheels till you find the one that suits your needs.You see that way you will know first hand the difference in brands and will not need different opinions that may be bias.
Although some will think it heresy, I do not think metal wheels make that much of a difference unless you have a problem with the plastic wheels on a piece. I have some plastic wheels on metal axles that roll as good as any all metal wheels I have. There is the sound, which some people really like, and the fact that some metal wheels rarely have any problems so they can be an excellent quick cure for the wobblies, etc. As to the dirt issue, plastic wheels will accumulate a build up much more so than metal wheels… but I am not sure this is a bad thing. Unless it is allowed to go untreated, I do not see this process spreading the dirt around on the track on my layout. In fact, it seems to clean the dirt off the rails. Of course, then you do need to clean the plastic wheels (I do it every two or three months), but I almost never have to touch the track other than a quick swipe every 8 or 10 months if I can remember to do it. No oil or any liquid touches my rails if I can help it, except laquer thinner when cleaning. If you are into the clipper oil school of thought, I would think that plastic wheels would be VERY bad actors on those layouts. I usually don’t change them out unless I have problems (I got a 12 car pack from MDC and every single plastic wheelset had a flat spot - they replaced them) or I need to add electrical pickup. Rather than jumping into this head over dollars, I say make your own evaluations.
FYI, I checked my metal wheel packaging last night when I got home from work and incidentally they are Life-Like P2K metal wheel sets.
Trevor
There is a wheel charts on the REBOXX web site http://www.reboxx.com/wheelsets.htm that shows axle length. It’s in a .pdf format so you need Adobe’s Acrobat reader program to read it.
Guess I’ve been lucky–I’ve been converting with P2K’s metal wheels and I haven’t noticed either any wobbles OR dirt buildup on the treads (and with a garage railroad, dirt buildup can be a real pain!). I’ve also used Intermountain replacement wheels, and frankly can’t see any difference betweem them and P2K’s. What I HAVE seen is longer trains and a lot less ‘bumpy’ locomotive performance thanks to the metal wheels not depositing gunk like the plastic. I will say though, that I ran into the same problem as some of you others with early Athearn RTR cars–had to change the trucks out in order to get metal wheels. Luckily, the newer RTR’s have good-quality metal wheels now, and I’ve had no problem. I keep a four-pack of P2k’s on hand for newer kits–in fact, those Accurail cars just run like a dream with them!!
Tom [^][^]