Numerous reports regarding Amtrak’s food services practices have been issued by a variety of sources over the last ten years. I have read five or six of them.
The two reports that I had in mind are the DOT Inspector General’s Report CR-2005-068, July 25, 2005, and the Amtrak Inspector General’s Report E-11-03, June 3, 2011. The DOT IG report dealt with the issue of sleepers and dinners on long distance trains. The Amtrak IG’s report dealt with food service fraud. I have not read recently either report, and I am not quoting from them. We have beat them to death in our discussions.
Food service on passengers trains, down through the years, has tended to be a loss leader. Ironically, if I remember correctly, one exception was the New Haven, which made money on its dinning cars longer than any other carrier while it was losing a ton of money on its passenger operations.
Mica has a valid point. If Amtrak were a profitable commercial operation, then running a loss leader would be acceptable. But it is not profitable. It requires significant federal and state subsidies for its existence. Given its dependence on taxpayer subsidies, especially with respect to the long distance trains, I am hard pressed to understand why a train rider’s eats should be subsidized.
As I read what Mica supposedly said, his focus appears to be on so-ca
Complaints and attacks about food and service aboard Amtrak should not be taken seriously. Those who favor McDonald’s fare and costs would be against anything better than that. Those who prefer Delmonico’s will be totally disappointed. Those who are bottom line feeders will complain against the cost of providing the service ignorning how it supports the service in ways other than financial, Those who over worry the total value of the service will lose track and go too far beyond what is really needed. Politicians, pick your sides and your weapons…the food fight is still in full battle.
This is one of your comments I find it hard to understand. I am reporting a personal practice; I’m not evaluating anything Amtrak does or does not do. And at most I comment on food at the snack bar, not food in a dining car.
For what it’s worth, Amtrak’s coffee and soft drinks as pretty much the same as you can get anywhere else. Rolls, breakfast food and sandwiches I find far better at the station. For example, I fine Zaro’s in both New York and Newark Penn Stations excellent. When I buy something to eat I try to buy what I like. That is all.
When I have brought food in the snack bar on the train I find it typical of similar food sold in for profit places. I don’t see any valid comparison between Amtrak snack bar food and food at similar businesses.
Finally, to suggest that an Amtrak issue should revolve around the bagel or croissant I eat on the train going up to Providence seems a little short sighted.
If we take individual comments about Amtrak food or bike hooks or similar things I can agree with them.
But I think we have to be careful about how we discuss them. There are people both in Congress and out of government who take a “starve the beast” perspective not only on Amtrak but also on many other government expenditures. They will attack pretty much anything government does. But their real agenda is to simply reduce government without any assessment of the value of the programs they want to close down.
Beyond that, Amtrak is a Republican legacy. Republicans traditionally favor internal improvements and beneficial to the economy as a whole and support them. Abe Lincoln, the first Republican President, understood that when he signed the Pacific Railroad Acts And Richard Nixon understood it when he signed the act to create Amtrak. Dwight Eisenhower understood it when he created the Interstate Highway System. These were controversial and the controversies were resolved in favor of the internal improvement.
Democrats oppose internal improvements because they believe all of the people of a society will be taxed for the benefit of a few relatively well off people. Thomas Jefferson, for example, refused to fund the Erie Canal for that reason. The people who oppose New Jersey Transit building to Scranton tend to be Democrats who incorrectly argue that only Wall Street people ride our commuter trains.
The people in Congress who oppose Amtrak do call themselves Republican and run on a Republican ticket. But many of them come from the southeast and still have their old anti internal improvement beliefs. Eventually I hope their beliefs will evolve.
Since you have been so candid, Don, I too feel the urge to confess.
In the early 60’s I was in the Army going home on leave. I met a pleasant companion and we both sat in the grill car on the New Haven looking out over the shore. I could only afford a hamburger. But I still remember how much I enjoyed it. I would willingly have $100 a year added to my taxes to see those grill cars run again.
What I like about you Mac, and I am sincere in saying this, is that you mean what you say and say what you mean. But let me suggest that things might improve if Amtrak burdened the society a little more. In the midwest and around Texas if we were to have some higher speed rail transportation than we now do it might be impossible to share it with freight railroads. Amtrak might then have to pay to improve its own track and leave the freight railroads, at least in some places.
I think you mean those guys who walked through the trains with a basket under their arm and a coffee pot hanging down. That was definitely the most horrible food I ever had in my life. On the other hand, they also sold literature. If you talked to them in the vestibule there was a little privacy to discuss your purchase.
So if a train had to make a 45 minute stop to feed passengers would that save mone ? Not likely. That would cause what at least 6 crew members another 2 hrs + pay per day. That does not count the idle time of the train & m possible blocking a freight train. Seems like AT&SF did it with Harvey houses and went to dinner cars to speed up train. A 6 meal LD trip will make a train schedule 4:30 more and train set might not be able to make turn times + maintenance issue…
I’ll say it again and expand. Amtrak’s food service seems to be there primarily for the LD trains, which lose a lot of money. It also loses (not looses) money. Someone (who apparently never worked for a retail operation like a department store) said you need it as a “loss leader.” But as Sam1 pointed out, you only can afford a loss leader if the rest of your operation makes some money, at least enough to offset it. If folks here the main attraction to riding LD trains is to eat in a dining car, then I believe LD service really is doomed.
The infamous $15 hamburger (cost to Amtrak to serve it for $8.95) is the sort of nonsense Amtrak does that Letterman and others joke about. And it is a symbol of what’s wrong with Amtrak. Guys like Mica use it to tear Amtrak apart. So if folks actually want to keep Amtrak, then it needs to change. Continuing to support a moribund institution like Amtrak, that continues to do things the way they were done 60 years ago (baggage cars?) is a sure-fire way to lose it.
Correction: The NYNH&H did not even cover costs on the dining cars per se. The dining and lounge cas were under one budget, and the money was recouped by the high prices chaged for drinks in the bar cars on commuter trains. And the higih prices did not stop people from using thse cars and using them steadly. They were often jammed, all seats taken and peoplel three deep at the bar-counter.
In a perfect world that would work. Being in the airline business for 30+ years lots of luck. Catering locations fall into 2 distinct operatioons. 1. At smaller locations as long as you are on time the caters will show up on time sbout 90% of the time. For every minute the plane is late expect a 1 - 2 % increase of them not showing up at your arrival. So if your plane is 30 minutes up late then caters showing upon your arrival goes down to about 60 % of time. Since a late train would not be affected by another train unless the opposite trains arrive at the same time who knows ? That would depend on capacity of catering truck. If caters also serve a small airport ( usually unlikely ) then lack of trucks could be a factor. 2. Large stations ? Even with the large amount of trains served at LAX, CHI , WASH, NYP, Bos delays happen though infrequently. But again late trains get later ( usually ). Whenever there are disruptins to service delays in catering were completely unpredictible. 3. No matter how tight performance contracts were there were always mistakes by the caterers in about 10 - 20 % of the time. Many times we woulld just have to leave without some missing items.
Even as I agree with you about this statement I am not sure that Amtrak is lying in shreds over its hamburger expenses, Schlimm.
David Letterman is an entertainer and his job to to find comedy where ever he can. But I doubt that entertainers will bring Amtrak down.
Congressman Mica is caught in a political paradox typical of America. His constituents like him a lot; there is no danger of his losing his seat as long as he wants to run. However, active Republicans in his district are a lot closer to Teaparty candidates and would prefer a more conservative candidate. The primary is where his challenge really lies. And one way for him to appeal to the conservatives in his district is to attack Amtrak. The $15 hamburgers have gotten him a lot of national exposure. (See your comment about David Letterman). So among the conservatives in his district the Congressman has succeeded and he intends to continue to succeed. But among Americans as a whole I doubt his attacks are more than an amusing diversion.
Sell snacks and soda from on board vending machines and “to go” meals at the stations on the NEC. Sell high margin stuff at manned stations - drinks, gourmet coffee, smoothies in manned cafe cars.
It would be a challenge… I was thinking more along the lines a national contract with very local administration. Perhaps each train would make it’s own arrangements and adjust en route as conditi
A lot of Americans pay more attention to comedians like Letterman, Leno, Fallon, Conan O’Brien, etc. and pundit comedians like Stewart and Colbert than they do to serious news. Consequently, when something becomes a joke like the $15 hamburger, it seriously damages Amtrak’s image in the eyes of the general public, far beyond Mica’s district. That’s the point.