[?] Gentelmen,
I am in search of a Military Flat car that I can load my Abrams tanks on.
I have sent E-mails to Walthers and Athearn and there are no takers for coming out with this model. Has anyone successfully scratch built one?
Walthers has a DOD depressed center flat car. I just use TTX 89’ flats and don’t put on the trailer bogeys.
Someone (I think Concor) did a six axle heavy duty flat for both US army and Dept of Defense… I have one of each. NMRA’s magazine did a run of pictures of military loads on flats.
I’ve not actually tried loading an Abrams on a flat car… I suspect that all-up it may be over width… M113 APCs were right on the edge of the load gauge here in the UK… At my first tower we had to block the opposite line to run them through on one side… where the line had some sharp curves.
Facts for the M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. 12 feet wide, 32 feet long and 69.5 tons. Two of these on a 89’ foot flat would require a truck in the middle.
I was correct…it’s out of gauge… too wide… can it be stripped down to reduce width? … some of the WWII heavy armour could operate with the outer road wheels and track link elements removed for transport… then they’d be put back on for operations to reduce the pounds per square feet loading on the ground… and (hopefully) bogging down.
Has anyone seen two of these on an 89’ flat? I wouldn’t want to end load them… massive stress on the car ends.
Does that 32 feet length include the gun barrel or just the body? A train carrying some Abrams went past the shop a few weeks ago. I was to in awe of the size to notice a lot of details but they were 1 to a car and they did not seem to have a lot of room to spare. The guns had a tripod to support them.
The 32 feet includes the gun barrel which in the stowed or travel position is facing the rear.
Check this web site http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm
Actually I would be surprised if you couldn’t load an Abrams onto a flatcar–the Abrams was designed to be able to fit inside of European standard-sized railroad tunnels as part of its design specifications (so it could use said tunnels as hidey-holes or shortcuts through a mountainside in combat.)
I am sure nobody has seen any M1s on an 89’ flatcar. They are too heavy. I have only seen M1s on about 60’, 6-axle flatcars.
Go to this website. It will tell you all you need to know about loading military equipment. Unfortunately, looks like a scratchbuild or a stand-in is all that is out there.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/55-17/ch20.htm
RedGrey62
Does this pic help? These tanks were coming throught B’ham a couple of months ago, apparently going to the Anniston Army Depot for Repair/refit.
Sorry about the quality of the photo. It was taken with a not so good camera.
Its been back in the early 90’s right before I got on to NS. Well anyway a train was carring like 16 Abrams tanks on the Fostoria Line coming into the east side of New Haven Indiana. Well one of the Tanks turrets broke loose from the travelling position. It swung out and took out like 16 Telephone poles before the Conductor or Engineer knew what was happening. THey always told us in school to watch the train behind us!!! I just thought I would add this little story. I have seen alot of different military loads come thru Ft.Wayne, And if its Military its usually riding on DoD heavy flats.
Kevin
look closely at cjcrescent’s photo and you will see those Abrams tracks are half on and half over the side of the car… this means that it is out of gauge. This need not be a problem on straight lines but certainly requires planning on curves…as I’ve noted above.
re lbflattop’s incident…I heard a story that we did the same with a load of ribbon rail that came loose at one end…acted like a scythe…fortunately someone realised before it hit any structures bigger than poles.
This is why big loads are stopped more often for examination…imagine what would have happened if either had met a train in the opposite direction…
I was stationed in Germany in the mid 80’s when there was a “train” incident. The Army had loaded its 5-ton expandable vans onto flatcars for movement to the exercise area, they forgot to check the height restrictions. The train passed under an overpass at speed and peeled the tops of every one of those trucks…oops!
RedGrey62
B
Gentlemen, I am very appreciative of your information that you have given me. Let me fill in a few details I failed to mention previously. As in cjcrescent’s picture, two tanks can fit on a three axled flat car. This flat car was specifically built for transporting the Abrams tanks and has markings and tiedowns for chaining down the tank. (Thanks for the dimensions of the Abrahms,
I did not have those). I can add a little on the weight the M1A1 Abrams. It is about 110,000 pounds+/- and with its plow blade attached it weighs about 125,000 pounds. The flat car is a special built DODX 40,000 series flat car. It is about 66’ long and widens out about 10’-0 from the ends to handle the width of the tracks. As the picture shows the tracks still hang over the sides. I have tried to buy a Flat Car and add some Athearn trucks to it but the would not pivot. Plus the flat car is to short Walthers has a dropped deck car with 4 axels but only one Abrams will fit on it. Walthers also has a 66’ flat car but it is also a 4 axeled truck and pivots on the ends and still can only handel on tank. For now the 89’ flats or the 60’ flats can hall them but the do not match the proto type and that is what I am after. I was deployed for 2 years at Fort Carson and saw these flat beds coming and going quite often and was hopeing to model them. I also have a tie down phamphlet for rail movements the gave me the discription and weights of the Abrams and the flat car
suggest you try the links on this thread…
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=45122
Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=28477&cat=654&page=1
OR THIS…
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=24039&cat=654&page=2
tHERE’S MORE GOODIES STARTING WITH THESE hmwvs… and all sorts of not-stripped-down stuff on flats follow through site…
I know its a late response, but I just saw this. They are 68’, six axle DODX flat cars. The trucks are in 3 sections, possibly articulated, but I’m not sure. They are only used for M1 tanks, and hold 2 M1 tanks each, with the turrets facing the rear of the train and of the tank. The tracks hang over the edge about 3". The Abrams tank is the heaviest tactical vehicle in the Army, because of the depleted uranium armor, it would be lighter if it were made of lead. By comparison, the much larger self-propelled howitzer travels on a 4-axle, 60’ DODX flat with its reloading vehicle, or 3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles will share that same type of car. Five M998 HMMWVs will fit on an 89’ flat car, either DODX or ITTX or similar.
I WI***hat someone made any of the DODX cars. The only one of them I could find was Accurail’s 89’ flat car, which is the correct car for the prototype. You could leave it stock, painted for the host railroad, or paint it DODX or ITTX. HMMWVs are also loaded onto enclosed bi-level autoracks on occasion.
I have seen a lot of M1A1 tanks on rails(A lot of them travel in and out of Camp McCoy in mid-Wisconsin). Those 68’ DODX flat cars have 6 wheel trucks and as stated, 2 Abrams tanks can be loaded. I have also seen a singe Abrams loaded on a standard 60’ TTX flat car(this was in the rapid buildup for Desert Storm in 1990-1991).
Jim Bernier