While researching som other information, I came across this website and I know there are some ‘somewhat rabid’ Milwaukee Road Fans on this forum. Seemed like this would be an interesting item to post, for those that are aware of it, Sorry to take up your tiem. To rhose who might not be aware,
I hope they will enjoy a story about these remarkable cars and pictures and history of them.
FTA:“…The Pullman Company, with noted Industrial Designer Brooks Stevens, came up with a stunning variation of their standard boat tail observation car. The lower part of the rear end, up to just below the window line, is standard in all respects. Above that, an open framework wraps around to create a bubble. The areas between the frame members are fitted with glass, resulting in a lounge that is nearly 90% transparent. There were six identical cars ordered in 1946 and delivered in late 1948 and early 1949 for the Olympian Hiawatha Route between Chicago and Tacoma, Washington…”
According to a plaque in the Cedar Rapids**,** which is the Skytop owned by the Friends of 261, Brooks Stevens was the designer, but it was built in the Milwaukee Road’s own shop.
FTA: "…There were six identical cars ordered in 1946 and delivered in late 1948 and early 1949 for theOlympian Hiawatha Routebetween Chicago and Tacoma, Washington. These cars were Eight Bedroom - SkyTop Observation Cars. The six cars were named “Adler Creek,” “Arrow Creek,” “Coffee Creek,” “Gold Creek,” “Marble Creek” and “Spanish Creek.”Four more Milwaukee-built cars (with a shorter Skytop bubble end and a Parlor configuration) were made for use on other trains.These were the only ten cars built to this unique Brooks Stevens design and are believed to be the only cars to be completely designed by an industrial designer…"
The Cedar Rapids owes its existence to the Stevens family in more ways than one. Brook Stevens designed the car and his son Dave Stevens bought the car from the Milwaukee Road after the car became surplus, saving it from suffering the fate of the Priest Rapids which was burned and scrapped at the West Milwaukee shops. The Dell Rapids and the Coon Rapids are preserved as well. The Creek cars didn’t do as well , none of them are currently in operating condition although there are efforts to save the Coffee Creek.
The 4 Rapids cars were built in Milwaukee, the 6 Creek cars were built by Pullman, the Milwaukee wasn’t big on building sleepers except for tourist section cars. Individual room sleepers are too complex
Coffee Creek has been saved for over thirty years now. What has been going on since is a slow restoration to return her to her former glory and full operating condition.
Her fate isn’t in doubt unless there is some dramatic recent development that I’m unaware of.
One of the most interesting parts of the story of these cars is their life after the Milwaukee Road.
At some time in the past several years there was a story and picture in TRAINS of two of these former MILWRR Skytop Observation Cars on a barge somewhere on the great lakes. I was unable to locate a FORUM reference to this item. Maybe somebody else will have better luck with it?
This link is to a THREAD referencing these cars from a Thread in Mar of 2004:
Antonio FP45 wrote"…I can tell you for sure that there is one still in existence somewhere, I’ve been inside of it!!
In 1981 I rode the Amtrak Silver Meteor to Sanford, Florida. I got off at the station and walked across to a storage area where there were several different passenger cars stored. I was pleasantly shocked when I saw her! I think I snapped 3 photos. She was faded and had rust on her sides but looked pretty solid. I went inside and took a photo of the “skytop lounge” area. What I looked like the original seats running along the skytop section looked decent but very dirty. Color was maroonish or brownish. I still have the photos somewhere in my 1,000 plus collection! I got out of the car and walked across to the yard and took photos of an E unit and an Auto Train U-Boat with a smashed in face.
Once a I get a scanner, I’ll put up some photos on this forum, I’ll add that Skytop to my list. I have no idea what’s become of this car or where it is now, but it did spend time Florida for sure!
Have any of you all seen this car? Has it been restored? I hope that is was not scrapped! I assumed that it belonged to a private owner? "
Sam, Try a GOOGLE search under “detroit mi skytop barge milwaukee road” and you will find several articles about the two Milwaukeee Road observation cars.
The car you describe may be Dell Rapids. The following is from a recent Classic Trains forum entry by garr.
" In the mid to late '80s I was very surprised to find it in a deteriorated state in a switch yard near the Auto-Train terminal in Sanford, FL along with other old passenger equipment. I have photos from that mid-late '80s visit of the Dell Rapids with very faded paint and broken windows–figured it would end up being scrapped. As a matter of fact, one of the old UP domes from the original AutoTrain was being
as listed on Trainorders website: link to Phil Domen’s excellent dome reference, deep link to the S____kytop page.
A couple of photos and much info as to the history and trail of some of the ‘Stevens Cars’ in their lives after their MILWRR service.
And as well linked here are photos of the two cars on the barge: Reportedly now in the Buffalo,NY area. (That barge was once the Steam Ferry Lansdowne)
"…The car you describe may be Dell Rapids. The following is from a recent Classic Trains forum entry by garr.
" In the mid to late '80s I was very surprised to find it in a deteriorated state in a switch yard near the Auto-Train terminal in Sanford, FL along with other old passenger equipment. I have photos from that mid-late '80s visit of the Dell Rapids with very faded paint and broken windows–figured it would end up being scrapped. As a matter of fact, one of the old UP domes from the original AutoTrain was being scrapped on site while I was taking photos."
The Dell Rapids has been fully restored and is currently residing in a museum in Daytona Beach, Florida. (note my avitar - its the Dell Rapids)…"
Thanks, to Zeyphr Overland for the above information!
Here is a link to the Datoyna Museum of Arts and Sciences which has the Brooks Stevens Car “Dell Rapids”
displayed in what looks to be a really nice setting under cover! along with a number of photographs from the collection of Neil Bagaus.
I think we have a pretty good idea of the past history and current locations of the Brooks Stevens designed MILWRR Hiawatha Skytop Lounge Cars. Thanks, All for the help and informaton (and links)!
I was just scanning through here rather quickly and I noticed photos of the Skytops on a barge in Buffalo NY. I believe these cars were saved and “don’t quote me on this” but I thought they went to a museum. Possibly St Louis Transportation Museum. I will have to do some digging on that.
My limited short term memory says that the Landsdowne has been scrapped in Buffalo. The cars were cut into sections for static display elsewhere. They had already been cut up to serve as the lounge on the Landsdowne and it would not be possible to run them again.
The cars weren’t saved, just sections of the bodies were.
As I remember it, they were intact as far as the frame and running gear was concerned when they were on the Lansdowne. Just sections of the sides of the bodies were removed to facillitate access between both cars and of course the interiors were gutted.
They weren’t cut into sections to be placed on the Lansdowne.and there’s was nothing that would’ve prevented these from returning to the rails with thousands of dollars invested to repair the structural damage and restore them like we’ve seen in the past with passenger cars in poor condition (Such as the Hickory Creek).
The Lansdowne has been scrapped. The scrap operators weren’t equipped to or prepared with the necessary knowledge to properly remove the cars. The bodies were cut in sections and removed with the heavy (And unique) trucks being left behind and scrapped. This last minute removal to save what they could (The scrapper was under no obligation to even do this much) is when the irrepairable damage occurred.
I’m unaware of where the pieces now are, but they wouldn’t be good for much more than a static indoor display of the observation section with a restored interior (Compare it to something like the cockpit section of an aircraft being saved and preserved with the rest of the airframe being destroyed). They’re not intact passenger cars and I’d hestitate to consider them much more preserved then something like a NYC Hudson is just because it’s builders plates are resting safe in someone’s collection. They are
I appreciate the photos and the update! To kind of clean up this matter of the Skytop Lounge cars on the Lansdowne .
They were the ARROW CREEK and the GOLD CREEK
The following photo from the Post by Leo Ames:
"…The Lansdowne has been scrapped. The scrap operators weren’t equipped to or prepared with the necessary knowledge to properly remove the cars. The bodies were cut in sections and removed with the heavy (And unique) trucks being left behind and scrapped. This last minute removal to save what they could (The scrapper was under no obligation to even do this much) is when the irrepairable damage occurred.
I’m unaware of where the pieces now are, but they wouldn’t be good for much more than a static indoor display of the observation section with a restored interior (Compare it to something like the cockpit section of an aircraft being saved and preserved with the rest of the airframe being destroyed). They’re not intact passenger cars and I’d hestitate to consider them much more preserved then something like a NYC Hudson is just because it’s builders plates are resting safe in someone’s collection. They are all just pieces…"
Quote This link is a reference to the MILWRR Skytop Lounge Cars from Trainweb,Linked here:
I was unaware of how they were attached to the barge as having played a role in the removal process. At the time it was claimed to simply have been done due to the weight limitation of the equipment they had available to remove them which is also what did the trucks in (Which could prove to be the real shame someday due to their rarity if a preserved Milwaukee Skytop ever needed a replacement truck due to irrepairable damage).
I’d love to hear more about how they were secured to the barge if anyone has more information. I’m surprised how they were secured to the Lansdowne played a role in how they were removed. But certainly the MRHA that is apparantly the purchasing party of these pieces couldn’t be incorrect about it. If anyone would know the facts of this outside of the scrapping firm, they certainly would.
The MILW’s Skytop observation cars were sent to Montevideo MN. There is a startup Milwaukee Road museum taking shape there. I saw the cars go west on the daily Twin City & Western freight.
