MK&T; MK&T of Texas

Classic Trains General Discussion
1

Since my last responses to the classic trains quiz have been shunted to the Moderator (and he has not passed on them), here is something of an explanation as to my mentioning the Missouri Kansas & Texas of Texas railroad.

Here it goes, for the third time; make that the fourth time.

I was shot down again, so I trying again to respond to the question about the “&” in MK&T of Texas.

MKT&T of Texas–the original name of what we know as the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Lines was the Missouri Kansas and Texas, and this is how it is listed as late as 1917. I do not know when the change was made, but by 1930, it is listed as the MKT. Thus, the Texas corporations were MK&T of Texas and MKT of Texas. The road we know as the IGN was known, as late as 1917, as the I&GN, its name was also changed by 1930 to IGN.

Years ago, I was reading O. Henry’s stories of life in Texas, and I thought that he had added the “&” on his own, but in later years I realized that he was naming the Katy as he knew it and as it was known at the time of his writing.

Addendum: I just googled the Missouri Kansas Texas Railroad, and learned that it was reorganized (again) in 1923, which may the year of the change in names. I did not find similar information on the IGN.

Johnny

2

Johnny,

I believe the answer to your question is that at one time all RR’s in Tx had to have a headquaters and the name “Texas” or a reference to Tx in their title… ie… Gulf Coast and Santa Fe,Texas and Pacific… etc…Iv heard this several times from several references… I&GN (Jenny Line) on the other hand was bought by the MOP early in its life as well as the SA&AP (San Antonio&Aransas Pass) and I guess that didnt apply to them …Maybe someone else can be more precise…

3

Danny, I have understood that, for many years, Texas law required that a railroad operating in Texas be incorporated in Texas–which made it necessary for most railroads that entered Texas from another state had to have a Texas corporation erected. I was wondering why the names were changed by deleting the “&.” The presence of the “&” had surprised contributors to the Classic Train questions thread.

The I&GN was the result of the merger between the International Railroad Company, which eventaully reached Laredo, and the Houston and Great Northern, and the “&” was quite logical. As I recall, this road was also mentioned by O. Henry.

To reach Corpus Christi from San Antonio, the MP acquired the “Sausage”–the San Antonio, Uvalde and Gulf, and the SP Lines acquired the SA&AP for the same reason. Back in the twenties, the SA&AP’s overnight train was named the Davy Crockett, and it was advertised as being “always on time.”

Thanks for your contribution–and I have appreciated other posts of yours that I have seen…

Johnny

4

Well, I posted a response in the usual way to Videomaker’s post, and it was shot down by the Moderator. So, I am trying a quick response.

Danny, I was wondering about the change which deleted the “&” from the names of the railroads, and not the requirement that any railroad operating in Texas be incorporated in Texas.

The IG&N was the result of the merging of the International Railroad, which eventaully reached Laredo, and the Houston and Great Northern Railroad, so the presence of the “&” in the orginal name is logical. As I recall, O. Henry mentioned the I&GN, as well as the MK&T.

The MP acquired the “SAUSAGE” (San Antonio, Uvalde and Gulf) to reach Corpus Christi from San Antonio, and the SP Lines acquired the San Antonio and Aransas Pass for the same reason. In the twenties, the SA&AP called its overnight train the Davy Crockett, and bragged that it was always on time.

Thanks for your contribution (I have appreciated other posts you have made on various topics).

Johnny

5

Johnny,

I was reading wikipedia last night about the T&BV RR and it said basically what I told you in the previous posts…It all had to do with RR’s running thru and having offices in Texas and the “& Texas” had to be registered that way in the Sec of States office in Austin…Just thot I would let you know…

6

Railroads often made subtle name changes when they were reorganized, like when ownership changed, coming out of a bankruptcy, purchasing a smaller RR etc. AB&C Railroad might become AB&C Railway for example. If you owned 100 shares of AB&C RR stock, you might now own 90 shares (or 110 shares) of AB&C RY stock.

Could be something like that, MK&T was already known as the “Katy” (K-T) so people were probably already calling the M-K-T before the ampersand was dropped.

7

I BELIVE THAT THE LOSS OF THE “&” MAY HAVE HAD MORE TO DO WITH REORGANIZATION THAN THE STATE REQUIRING OUT OF STATE RAILROAD CORPORTATIONS OPERATE UNDER AN IN STATE CORPORATION. REGARDLESS, THE SA&AP OPERATED AS A TEXAS CARRIER UNTIL IT WAS MERGED INTO THE T&NO (ESPEE) ON JAN.1, 1926. THIS WAS THE 2ND TIME THIS HAPPENED, THE FIRST TIME AROUND THE TURN OF THE CENTURY…WHICH WAS DISALLOWED BY THE TEXAS RR COMMISSION.

WW

8

I´ve got some short questions about the MKT, so I decided to put them in here and not create an extra thread for it.

Can somebody give me a list of all MKT name trains and the names of the cities that they connected?

How long was the average MKT long distance heavyweight passenger train (how many cars)?

Did the MKT Pacifics (I think they were Katy´s biggest steamers) also ever pull the streamlined Texas Special?

Daniel

9

Daniel, I can give you some answer to your first two questions, from the June 1916, 1930, and 1955 Guides

1916

Texas Special: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis & Kansas City-Ft. Worth, St. Louis- Dallas.

The Katy Limited: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, Kansas City-Houston via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Oklahoma City. (Alton Chicago-St. Louis) Chicago-San Antonio via Dallas.

The Katy Flyer: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis-Columbia., Mo., St. Louis- Oklahoma City, St. Louis- Galveston via Ft. Worth, St. Louis-San Antonio via Dallas, Kansas City-Parsons, Kan., Dallas-Houston, Austin, & San Antonio, Ft. Worth-Austin & San Antonio, San Antonio to Waco.

1930

Texas Special: (MKT all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis & Kansas City-Ft. Worth, St. Louis & Kansas City- Dallas, St. Louis-Wichita Falls, Tex. (Via SP west and south of San Antonio) St. Louis-Los Angeles & Brownsville, Tex.

The Sooner: Kansas City-Oklahoma City & Bartlesville, Okla.

The Katy Limited: (MKT all the way) St. Louis to Dallas, Kansas City-San Antonio via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Houston via Dallas, Kansas City-Dallas & Ft. Worth, San Antonio to St. Louis via Dallas. Waco, Ft. Worth & D

10

1916

Texas Special: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis & Kansas City-Ft. Worth, St. Louis- Dallas.

The Katy Limited: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, Kansas City-Houston via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Oklahoma City. (Alton Chicago-St. Louis) Chicago-San Antonio via Dallas.

The Katy Flyer: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis-Columbia., Mo., St. Louis- Oklahoma City, St. Louis- Galveston via Ft. Worth, St. Louis-San Antonio via Dallas, Kansas City-Parsons, Kan., Dallas-Houston, Austin, & San Antonio, Ft. Worth-Austin & San Antonio, San Antonio to Waco.

1930

Texas Special: (MKT all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis & Kansas City-Ft. Worth, St. Louis & Kansas City- Dallas, St. Louis-Wichita Falls, Tex. (Via SP west and south of San Antonio) St. Louis-Los Angeles & Brownsville, Tex.

The Sooner:(MKT all the way) Kansas City-Oklahoma City & Bartlesville, Okla.

The Katy Limited: (MKT all the way) St. Louis to Dallas, Kansas City-San Antonio via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Houston via Dallas, Kansas City-Dallas & Ft. Worth, San Antonio to St. Louis via Dallas. Waco, Ft. Worth & Dallas to Tulsa. (Via CGW between Minneapolis and Kansas City) Minneapolis-Houston via Dallas.

The Katy Flyer: (MKT all the way) St. Louis -Oklahoma City, St. Louis-San Antonio via Dallas. Austin to Dallas & Ft. Worth.

The Bluebonnet: (MKT all the way) St. Louis-Dallas, Ft. Worth, & San Antonio [does not specify whether via Dallas or Ft. Worth; either way was possible]. Tulsa to Dallas, Ft. Worth & Waco.

The 11 o’clock Katy: (MK&T all the way) Wichita Falls-Houston via Dallas, Dallas-Houston, Galveston, & San Antonio, Ft. Worth & Dallas to Austin , Ft. Worth-San Antonio & Houston.

Alamo Special: (MK

11

Daniel, I have tried to post a response to your wuestion about name trains and the cities they connected; it was shunted to the moderator. I also tried a “quick reply” and it, too was put on the siding. I hope one or the other will appear soon.

Johnny

12

I will try to list the trains in short posts.

1916

Texas Special: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis & Kansas City-Ft. Worth, St. Louis- Dallas.

The Katy Limited: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, Kansas City-Houston via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Oklahoma City. (Alton Chicago-St. Louis) Chicago-San Antonio via Dallas.

The Katy Flyer: (MK&T all the way) St. Louis-Columbia., Mo., St. Louis- Oklahoma City, St. Louis- Galveston via Ft. Worth, St. Louis-San Antonio via Dallas, Kansas City-Parsons, Kan., Dallas-Houston, Austin, & San Antonio, Ft. Worth-Austin & San Antonio, San Antonio to Waco.

Johnny

13

Apparently my first post was too long. Here is information from the June 1930 Guide

1930

Texas Special: (MKT all the way) St. Louis & Kansas City-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis & Kansas City-Ft. Worth, St. Louis & Kansas City- Dallas, St. Louis-Wichita Falls, Tex. (Via SP west and south of San Antonio) St. Louis-Los Angeles & Brownsville, Tex.

The Sooner:(MKT all the way) Kansas City-Oklahoma City & Bartlesville, Okla.

The Katy Limited: (MKT all the way) St. Louis to Dallas, Kansas City-San Antonio via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Houston via Dallas, Kansas City-Dallas & Ft. Worth, San Antonio to St. Louis via Dallas. Waco, Ft. Worth & Dallas to Tulsa. (Via CGW between Minneapolis and Kansas City) Minneapolis-Houston via Dallas.

The Katy Flyer: (MKT all the way) St. Louis -Oklahoma City, St. Louis-San Antonio via Dallas. Austin to Dallas & Ft. Worth.

The Bluebonnet: (MKT all the way) St. Louis-Dallas, Ft. Worth, & San Antonio [does not specify whether via Dallas or Ft. Worth; either way was possible]. Tulsa to Dallas, Ft. Worth & Waco.

The 11 o’clock Katy: (MK&T all the way) Wichita Falls-Houston via Dallas, Dallas-Houston, Galveston, & San Antonio, Ft. Worth & Dallas to Austin , Ft. Worth-San Antonio & Houston.

Alamo Special: (MKT all the way) Houston-San Antonio.

14

June,1955

Texas Special: (Via SLSF between St. Louis & Vinita, Okla.) St. Louis-San Antonio via Dallas, St. Louis- Dallas & Ft. Worth. (Via B&O between Washington & St. Louis, thence SLSF to Vinita) Washington-San Antonio via Dallas. (Via PRR between New York & St. Louis, thence SLSF to Vinita) New York-San Antonio via Dallas. [In the late forties into the early fifties, there were several through lines between various Texas cities and East Coast cities.]

Katy Flyer: (MKT all the way) Dallas & Ft. Worth-San Antonio.

The Bluebonnet: (MKT all the way) Kansas City-San Antonio via Ft. Worth, Kansas City-Dallas.

Towards the end of the Katy’s passenger service, the SLSF had dropped its service to the Southwest, and the Texas Special became a Kansas City-San Antonio train.

I do have timetables & Guides from the forties through to the end of the Katy’s passenger service, but I believe that you can get a good idea of the service that was offered from 1917 on. If you would like to know the service offered in 1893 (no named trains), I can give that also.

Johnny

15

Side note on the MKT of T:

Just prior to the Katy’s purchase by the MoP - UP a number of MoP covered hoppers were acquired by the Katy. The cars reporting marks were altered to “MKTT”, which was the MKT of T’s mark that the Katy still held.

The end result of this is that you can occasionally find Union Pacific covered hoppers with the “MKTT” reporting marks.

Mark Gosdin