Ok, I’ve tried to use CadRail several times. Each time, I end up completely frustrated and no where near something I can begin to use. I have a version that’s 1 rev behind the current version.
What I’m looking for is a tool that allows me to create virtually my train layout, allow me to make changes and for me to visualize those changes. It’s not necessary that I can actually run trains, that would be nice but no a requirement.
I have not necessarilly given up on CadRail, but I’m close. Is there any recommondations for alternatives or any pointers on how to use CadRail? Thanks in advance.
I don’t have any pointers for you on using CadRail, but as far as I know, there is no program that will design a track plan for you, and that may be your problem. You have to have a very good idea of what you want first. What the program will do is make sure the track will fit your benchwork or the space allotted for it.
So what I would do is try and design a trackplan without using a program, then redraw it using the program to see if things will fit the way you think they should.
If that isn’t the problem you are having, then disregard my comments.
The chief purpose of a track plan drawing tool is often to keep us honest - to make sure that things will fit more or less as drawn - that we are not overly optimistic when figuring turnout angles, ladder lengths, curve radii, inclines and such things.
Some people can visualize a layout from nothing but some pencil drawn lines on the back of an envelope.
What (in your opinion) would it take for you to be able visualize your layout? Is is a matter of seeing height differences in 3D instead of looking down at a 2D overhead map? Realistic looking buildings? Using colors for stuff like the ground? Ability to add trees and shrubs? Bigger library of turnouts? Something else?
What features do you find lacking in the program you are currently using?
This is from www mremag.com where I edit the Hints and Tips… funnily enough this one was written by me! I have the full range published to date on www.xdford.digitalzones.com and go to MRE (Model Railway Express) Hints and Tips…
Hints & Tips No.24
Virtual Planning
by Trevor Gibbs
To try and see how a track plan may or may not work, I have used Auran’s Trainz program to draw up the layout and test run the layout using virtual trains before committing to the carpentry. While I have not seen it, I am led to believe that Hornby’s Virtual Railway can do the same using Hornby’s track system. Trainz does not take long to learn the basic steps… sharp inclines on ridges still defeat me a bit but track layout, building placement, and even signalling becomes easier to visualise
The advantages of this is that you can set up the operating scenarios to run your trains and see if those scenarios work and workout your scenery at the same time. Rather than taking yo
I’ve tried out CadRail, 3rdPlanit, and XtrkCad. All three have extremely poor user interfaces, in my opinion. Compared to general purpose and architectural cad programs that I have used in the past, they are all extremely difficult to learn. User hostile, would be an apt description. This is the fault of the software designers, not the users.
The only thing I can suggest it to hang in there and practice, practice, practice.
I desagree on that, specially for 3rdplanit. As a pro CAD user you can’t compare with, say, AutoCAD or 3DStudio, each with more that 300 different commands. For a non CAD user AutoCAD’s interface may look and “feel” complately allien, not even understanding the icon symbols and concepts such as splines or polylines. What I mean is that CAD software designers start from the basis that the end user for such specialized programs know what they are doing. MR CAD software designers have the same concept, they suppose that the user know how to design a railroad.
It is important to note that CAD software does not design, they are just drawing tools. If you don’t know what you’re doing, a CAD software is useless. If you don’t know how to calculate a helix or a slope, if you don’t know the basics about radii or frog #s, then it would be very difficult for you to use the program’s tools and for the software to “know” what you want. If you don’t know what to say, the word processor won’t write it for you… </
I recommend that you look into a program called WinRail. Its very easy to learn how to use. While easiest when using it for sectional track, it pretty easily supports adding flextrack sections too. More importantly - for me, anyway - the ease of use makes up for less flexibility. Once you are actually laying track you’ll find it easy to work around the differences between some use of sectional track, and flex track. They have an extensive library of brands, just make sure you select the brand you intend to use so that the turnouts are correclty sized.
Got to agree with RedLeader, my experience with ‘real’ CAD software (mostly CadKey, not a lot of AutoCAD - back in the day CadKey had it all over AutoCAD when it came to 3D) made 2rd PlanIt seem fairly intuituve. There are a couple of preference settings that change the behavior from sort of Windows-like to more professional CAD like as far as how clicks nad drags are handled. I use the CAD settings.
Getting back to the OP’s thoughts, CAD just isn’t for everyone. Just like no everyone cna be a scenery guru not everyone can grasp CAD principles. If you are one of those who looks at the plans for anything, not just track plans, and can’t visualize what the finished product is, or who looks at an exploded view of something and can’t for the life of you figure out what connects to what, CAD may not be for you. More than the user interface of the chosen program - stuff like “how to a connect these straight pieces with a curve”, the fundamental ability to visualize what you are trying to create is just one of those things that some people can do and some can’t, no matter how much you practice with the program. I can do CAD, or mechanical drawing with a t-square and so forth, but freehand draw? hahaha. I can draw stick figures. Wiring? No problem. Scenery? Forget it.
I agree with RedLeader. This is especially true since you are asking about being able to visualize your future layout. With 3d Plan it you can “go” inside your future layout and run trains. TG check your in box, er conversations as it’s called now
Has any one on this forum used RailModeller? Here is a link to a free download of the trial software. www.railsusa.com/cgi-bin/links/go.cgi?id=3606 Only problem you need an Apple or a Mac computer! I Have a IMac, but I want some other model train users opinions on it, if they already tried the software. Thank you for any replies, I’ll keep checking back. …Thank You, Have a good evening.
Good points. I’ll elaborate a bit. This is both for a very small home pike and the club I belong to. The club’s requirements is to drive concensus. We end up making way, way too many changes during construction because of assumptions (neither bad or good, but obviously different) about what people said, meant, intended etc. I’m hoping we cal use the graphical tool to both get a better idea of what people intended, and to a larger extent, try “what if” ideas before we get into a long construction project.
The home pike, I just want to do what-if’s and to also “keep me honest”… so I don’t put 60" radius in that itty bitty room.
What I think is missing is usability from CadRail. Several hours and I simply can’t “get it to work”, I can’t create an oval that has the dimensions I want.
Oh thanks. A bit of information I left out in the first post is that I’m actually a software developer by trade… and finding such a steep usability curve was begining to really make me worry… maybe I’m not as smart as I thought .
Having not used CadRail I’m not sure how to proceed, but in 3rd PlanIt, for a simple oval I’d draw one straight side, and set the length manually - it’s hard to get things exact with a mouse, even the high-resolution gaming mouse I have - even with it turned down the slightest twitch is sometimes severl 16ths of an inch. But 3PI gives you complete control over the length of lines, the X and Y coordinates of the start, the X and Y coordinates of the end point, and the differentials. You can just type numbers in.
I would then copy the line, and paste is below the first one, with the distance between them as desired or as determined by the width of the board.
Next use the connect tool to connect the ends of each line on the left. ANd repeat for the right. Voila, a simple oval. I doubt CadRail can be much more difficult that this.
I use AnyRail, which is not a CAD program, and doesn’t make drawings that will win you any awards for beauty. But it is very easy to use and has extensive track libraries. Structures are easily drawn by creating polygons.
It is a strictly 2D object, and using it’s incline tools takes some getting used to (if you want to say honest; it will let you put slopes of 50% or more in there, even though your trains couldn’t possibly climb it). It’s also a little pricey, but it’s well-supported with a superb on-line manual.
If you have TrainPlayer, you can export your track plans to that program and actually operate them.
I’m a computer dinosaur! However I have been using 3rdPlanit to design my yet to be built layout. I have listened to many criticisms about layout planning software and when I examined 3rdPlanit it passed all the tests. For example, I have looked at turnout dimensions. A previous poster suggested that the turnouts would not fit into the space indicated in the program. I measured my actual turnouts and compared their dimensions to the drawings and there was a little extra space provided by the program. I hope that will prove to be true when I build the layout. Bottom line is that the computer programs, despite a few weaknesses, alow for a lot of changes in your plan without wasting too many erasers.
I’ve tried most of them, and liked 3rdPlanit the best. However, they are all useless for me. I just can’t visualize the real thing well enough. So what works for me is building a full scale size mock up using cardboard, thick poster board, fomecore, etc, or whatever works. That’s the only way I can get a realistic idea of what it will look like. It’s also quick and easy.
The downside is your wife will think you’re crazy and your kids will be overheard talking about Close Encounters of the Third Kind. [:D]
Hmm - I am surprised at hearing that making an oval is so hard in CadRail. It is pretty easy in all programs I have used. Are you using flex track or sectional track in your planning?
As Randy pointed out, making an oval with flex track usually is done somehow like:
draw a straight line for one long side, position it where you need it
copy the line, paste it, position the new line where you need it
use a connect type tool to make curves connecting the two - first on one side, then on the other
I am using XtrkCad - not because it is the best program ever, but it is perfectly adequate for my purposes. It has nice functions like “create parallel track” which I use to quickly do things like laying out sidings etc. You specif
I am a computer dinosaur - at least my son thinks I am one. I am quite happy to be able what I do - search the web, participate in this forum, read my e-mails and answer them, write the odd letter, prepare tables and presentations, using various tools and programs. Going into the nitty-gritties is not really my thing.
I tried various track planning programs - AnyRail, Xtrkcad, WinTrack and WinRail, only to find out, that all of them at one point or another have a hitch in their git-along, makig me spend more time fighting with the software than doing actual design work. I finally settled for the cheapest version (at that time), which was WinRail 8.0 - a no frills, no 3-D tool, which has been enhanced quite a lot since.
It took me a little while to get acquainted with the tool, but now I am quite happy with it. Shaping flex-track was an issue, as the program never seemed to be doing what I wanted. Now that I found the knack of it, it is actually quite easy.
WinRail 8.0 is the same software as Atlas´ freebie RTS, which is limited to Atlas track alone, whereas WinRail has a larger track library.
Just some examples of what you can do with this software:
