This was brought up on layouts Thread, so I thought I would post it here for all to view:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_transport_modelling_scale_standards
Frank
Bumped by Me. As in just in case, some missed it and would like a reference.
Frank
HO = “Half Zero”…LOL…
That as bad as saying “HO” (as in Santa’s HO,HO,HO.) gauge.
Sorry,couldn’t resist.[:-,]
Larry,
[(-D] Back in 51 when I started in HO, that is how I referenced the scale to my LHS owner, before he corrected me! [:)]
Maybe I should have asked a forum member, on the internet EH! [(-D]
Frank
G-scale is the most botched up mess of all – for too many years, every manufacturer decided on their own what would be a “standard” scale. Even the track, though more or less standardized, is referred to in different terms.
Scale ranges from 1:20 to 1:36 and everything in between, and there may even be some that are so manufacturer-specific that they aren’t really considered mainstream.
There’s also 1:13.7 for those modeling the Maine 2 footers using G track.
Enjoy
Paul
In G scale I think 1:32 is 3/8" = 1’ is that right? Thanks
That is #1 scale. G is family of scales all using track that is standard gauge for #1 scale. Unfortunately, some of the scales also have a separate letter designation like Fn3 which 1:20.3. It’s all confusing and probably prevents many people from modeling in it. Except for #1, the scales are all narrow gauge even though 1:29 and 1:24 have standard gauge engines and rolling stock on narrow gauge wheels.
Paul
But “Half Zero” is technically correct is it not? The early scales, probably better regarded as gauges, from England were numbers, things like 3, 2, 1, and 0, 0 being then the smallest commercial gauge. The 0 was a number, very possibly pronounced “naught.” [Amended post: just found a Westcott discussion in a 1970 MR and he says it was pronounced “aught” in England - but again clearly a number, not a letter.]
3 was very large; from time to time 1 which itself seems large to us is revived as a scale; veteran readers of MR might recall some Colorado Midland stuff brought out in 1 scale in the 1960s because the guy who owned Model Engineering Works (MEW) liked it.
The scale that went with 0 gauge track was 7mm = 1 ft, in England. Our “HO” is half of that at 3.5mm = 1 ft . Our HO is not half of our American O which is of course 1/4" = 1 ft. A long dead scale called E scale was 1/8" = 1 ft.
Linn Westcott once wrote that long ago and well before Kalmbach, book and magazine typographers [edited post - I am not referring to typewriters] believed that O scale (using the letter O and not the number 0) looked more pleasing to the eye than would be the more correct 0. And that in turn influenced it being called “oh” and not “zero,” or “naught.” And of course now scales are routinely specified using letters, again with the exception of the number 1 scale advocates.
Some old timers might remember when Temple Nieter wrote lots of letters to MR back in the 1960s still advocating OO scale, and back in the 1930s when it was
I don’t know who wrote the Japanese part of that Wiki, but it’s a glaring error! HOj is NOT 1:87 scale on 12mm gauge track. HOj has been 1:80 scale on 16.5mm gauge track since long before I bought my first Japanese prototype models in the late 1950s.
I’m not in any position to judge the accuracy (or lack thereof) of the rest of that Wiki, but, for any given scale/gauge/name listed I’d want either a competent second opinion or a look at the source document(s).
Chuck (Who has added his [2c] to Wikipedia entries, only to see them changed to something erroneous, modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Oh, Oh, Chuck, I hope I didn’t need to put in a disclaimer. [(-D]
Old Man still playing with Trains,[zzz]
Frank
I dunno about that Westcott reference - back in those days, typewriters didn;t even HAVE a number 0 key, the letter O was normally used - at least, the ancient Smith-Corona manual that I used at home was like that. I high school I got a more modern, but still manual, typewriter, that one had a distinct 0 and O. Typesetting may be a differnet story, for accuracy there may have been 0’s and O’s. But if the copy was typewritten, how was the compsitor to know? Certain things are obvious, like if it was $1000 then it’s pretty obviously zeros and not o’s. But in the context of model railroading “That’s a nice O scale model” - unless you too were a modeler, which is it, O or 0? Unless the author went back and put slashes through the zeros to eliminate ambiguity, a habit I learned in engineering and programming, there’s many cases where you just don’t know what was intended.
–Randy
Randy,
Back in the 60’s the Military Tele type machines were like that, slash’s in 0’s, dash’s in z’s, 7’s, 1’s and so forth, there was no mistaking what they were. That is also how you had to hand write a Morse Code message before you even started to learn TT. Send and receive Morse and type minimun 25 words a minute to pass, to even be in como. I will add, no mistakes.
Frank
Instead of a link to Wikipedia, I wish that someone knowledgeable about the differences between scale and gauge and the proper use of these two terms would comment in detail.
For example, not long ago, on the CTT forum, I made a reference to Lionel as O scale and was quickly corrected as to the proper term - - O gauge.
Another example. American Flyer is S gauge, but in more recent times, some manufacturers came out with S scale models that would not run on the old American Flyer track and vice versa, where the old post-war AF locos would not run on the new S scale track.
Anybody out there knowledgeable enough to take us through this topic?
Rich
I believe we could wind up going in circles here. It appears that some would question who is the most knowledgeable. Someone with a PHD in scale and gauge and has no clue about Modelrailroad, scale and gauge and is it really necessary to know every fact. If we come to a point and continue to question every explaination of fact, we might as well throw all our books away, because they are flawed.
Frank
North American Z,N,HO,S,O are all the same standard gauge regardless of the scale.Scale is the ratio used for the different to show their size compared to the prototype.
Scale and gauge are not the same thing and should not be used interchangably.
I agree. I just can’t figure that all out.
But, is G the scale or the gauge? And if it is the scale, what is the designation for G standard gage?
If we accept that the “standard” G scale is 1/22.5, as invented by LGB, it´ll be # 2 scale.
That’s not necessarily correct. Although “traditional” Lionel toy trains are undersized, a good portion of Lionel’s trains today are built to 1:48 scale, so you may have been correct depending on which trains you were referring to. Today there are many “hi-railers” like Norm Charboneau who build 1:48 scale layouts, but using three rail track.
BTW 1:48 isn’t really the correct scale for 1.25" O gauge track. It should be 1:45. In the US we use 1:48 because the math was easier, as that works out to 1/4" = 1 foot. In Europe they use 1:43.5 which is 7mm to the foot. HO is half of that, 3.5mm to the foot.
American Flyer trains were/are made to 1:64 scale, the correct scale for S trains. However, they were designed with deep flanges to run on tubular tinplate track, so trains built with more scale-like wheels won’t work on AF track (and vice versa). Has nothing to do with scale per se. The type of rail and wheels are different, but AF toy trains and S scale models are the same scale.
G is really a concept, meaning “real big trains” more than anything, but I guess it would be most accurate to think of it as a gauge indicating track that is 1.75" wide. This track gauge was called “Number 1” gauge by Marklin, who numbered their gauges. When they came out with a gauge smaller than No.1, it was 0 (zero) gauge, which we normally call “O” gauge. The correct scale for standard gauge model trains running on No.1 track is 1:32 scale.
In the 1960’s, Lehmann toy company in West Germany started making “LGB (Lehmann Gross Bahn, or “Lehmann’s Big Railroad”) Trains” using No.1 gauge track to represent European meter (39") gauge narrow-gauge track. The trains themselves were built to 1:22.5 scale.
In the US, some modellers built layouts using No.1 gauge track (by the seventies often called “G gauge” track in the hobby press, since No.1 gauge was fairly unknown in the US) but having the narrow gauge trains be 1/2" = 1 foot, or 1:24 scale. In recent years, some US modellers are using No.1 gauge track to model US 3’ gauge lines, using a correct linear scale of 1:20.3.
One or more companies make No.1 gauge trains to a scale of 1:29. That’s because these engines and cars then are about the same size as larger scale (like 1:22.5) narrow gauge cars. Many people running “G gauge” trains aren’t model railroaders, they just want trains in their gardens, so this made it easier for them to mix cars from "st