Does anybody have a recommendation which heavyweight car to take for converting it into an open observation car (car type? manufacturer?)? I would be interested in modeling a MILW heavyweight open observation car like this:
Well, cutting off the carsides below the windows is the first step I guess, but what about all the rest above the carsides? Any suggestions what to take for the bars and the roof and the handrails?
Looks like a cut down heavyweight car. The Rio Grande had some like that, but without a roof. As much as it raisn in the Northwest, that probably not an option.
I’d use plastic or brass to build the roof and its supporting structure. It may be possible to cut a different roof from plastic tubing, as most heavyweight roofs don’t have a decent cross-section to fit like that.
I used a Rivarossi heavyweight coach to make a CNR “Mountain Observation” car for a friend. The length was almost exactly correct, and, working from prototype photos, it was easy to remove the necessary window areas. I soldered brass wire together to create the safety railings in the open-air section, while the ornamental railings at the steps are from an S.S. Limited rooftop embellishment. The car roof is from a Rivarossi lightweight RPO. CN ran a number of these cars through the Canadain Rockies.
EDIT: You may be able to create that roof style by using the Central Valley stockcar roofs, which are available separately in a three-pack. They’re a radial-style roof and are quite wide - I’ll be using them as caboose roofs on some scratchbuilt cars, and for that purpose, the roofs will need to be trimmed narrower.
Wayne
Thanks for the suggestion! Just googled those radial-style stock car roofs by Central Valley and they seem to be exactly the right for me. Two pieces of them should be enough for the roof. And I think too that an old Rivarossi/AHM or IHC coach will be the right car to take for the converting.
My guess would be, given the postcard view is probably c.1910 or so, that it was a wooden car that was altered. Don’t assume that because it’s orange, it’s after 1934. The Milwaukee Road used orange and maroon on their passenger cars from the 19th century up to the 1920’s, then switched to Pullman green for a short time before switching back to orange when the Hiawatha was introduced in 1934.
I would start with one of the old MDC “Pullman Palace” 80’ cars, now made by Athearn. Bachmann makes a version of a similar car, only shorter, but with a similar roof and support system. You maybe could kitbash two of them to make the roof and supports. You could try contacting Bachmann, you might be able to but the roofs and supports separately??
http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_316_321&products_id=2107
The postcard view is from 1915 to be more precise. Using a wooden car would be wrong since both the Olympian and Columbian were all steel heavyweight trains when introduced in 1911. So a “Palace” car won´t work here. By the way it´s the first time ever that I hear that the Milwaukee ever used the Pullam Green on their passenger cars. Never ever saw a photo of a Pullman Green Milwaukee passenger car. I know that both versions of the all heavyweight Olympian (1911 version and 1927 version) were painted in orange, and when the Olympian was upgraded to air conditioned status in 1934 and also the first leightweight streamliner cars started to appear in the consist from that year on, it stayed orange as well.
Hmmm, maybe I should ask Bachmann if they are willing to sell me the benches/seats separately. They look ok. But actually I´m not sure about it since I don´t know yet if the seats/benches in that open observation car of the Olympian were positioned horizontal or vertical.
In that postcard view there appears to be truss rods under the open car. That almost certainly indicates a wooden car, although it is quite possible that the Milwaukee added steel sheathing to cover the wood sides. No doubt the cars that provided revenue were all steel.
This car was likely used only through the western mountains on a seasonal basis for the free enjoyment of the passengers, who held space elsewhere in the train in one of the heavyweight steel cars. Conversion of a surplus older car kept costs down to a level where providing the frill could be justified more easily. And the older wood cars were lighter, also a consideration when tackling mountain grades.
John
De Luxe:
Neat project!
Doctorwayne:
Your modelling never ceases to amaze!
Dave
I recall a family trip in western Canada in the 1950’s and we had one of the these types of cars at the end of a train on the Canadian Pacific from Vancouver to Calgary. I still remember the pine smell as we went through the forests in the mountains.
Edit: … Wayne … That is a fabulous model of the CNR car!
Exactly my opinion too! The car looks soooo not kitbashed or self made! Great work!
Wow, they still used those cars in the 50s? Lucky you! I thought that open observation cars stopped operating in the 30s or 40s because of higher train speed.
What train was it? The Dominion? Or the summer-season-only-train Mountaineer? Did you have a Selkirk pulling it? I´m getting jealous!
Yes it was the Mountaineer. The car was added in Calgary on the westbound trip and taken off in Calgary on the Eastbound trip. In Greg Macdonnel’s book “Signatures in Steel” There is a picture of it at the end of the train, taken in 1960. I think that car is in Squamish BC at the West Coast Railway Park now.
Edit. Dr. Wayne, your modelling is terrific and that car is no exception!
I think Mountaineer is the name. I still recall my Dad being upset at the old equipment. He thought it would be the Budd stremlined train. The train was powered with GP units if I recall correctly. We were on the eastbound train. When we awoke in the morning we had a steam locomotive hauling us to the border connection with Soo Line. We were on the Soo Line to St. Paul, and we went home on the CB&Q Zephyr. …
It was a 3 week trip starting and ending in Chicago. … Super Chief to Los Angeles; Santa Fe to and from San Diego… SP Coastline Daylight to San Francisco. (While waiting to depart LA we saw the Aero Train serving on UP to Los Vegas.) … Rode SP Shasta Daylight to Portland… UP to Seattle… CP Princess Lines ship to Vancouver with a stop at Victoria… Then it was the Mountaineer. ( We stopped at Lake Louise and stayed a few days before getting on the Mountaineer again. )
Espee had two 89 foot chair observations built for the Daylight limited, what made them unique was the ability to configure half that space to open air by means of mutliple sets of folding interior doors, they also wore the short lived pearl gray colors unique to that premier train.
Dave
What a trip! Now I´m even more jealous! [*-)]
I’ll say! [wow]
Thanks to all for the kind words regarding the observation car [:$] and my apologies for not replying sooner. I normally subscribe to any threads to which I’ve responded, but discovered recently that it’s no longer possible to unsubscribe from only specific threads - apparently it’s all or nothing now. So where I would normally have received notices of your replies, my attempt to avoid a couple of other threads which had become repetitive made me miss out here. [banghead]
Wayne
I know it´s offtopic but:
By looking at Trainworld and ebay, I could currently put together these 2 different Mountaineer versions:
VERSION 1:
SOO HW Baggage 1627 by Walthers
SOO LW Baggage by Walthers
CP LW Baggage 4318 by Rapido Trains
CP LW Baggage by AHM
CP LW 10-5 Sleeper “Brookdale” by Walthers
CP LW 10-5 Sleeper “Cloverdale” by Rapido Trains
CP LW Duplex Sleeper “H.B. Bowen” by Rapido Trains
CP HW Diner by AHM (no interiors)
SOO HW 12-1 Sleeper “Beauport” by Walthers
SOO HW 8-1-2 Sleeper by Walthers
SOO HW Sleeper Lounge Solarium Observation by Walthers
That means:
6 cars by Walthers, 3 cars by Rapido Trains & 2 cars by AHM
6 CP cars & 5 SOO cars
6 LW cars & 5 HW cars
VERSION 2:
CP LW Baggage by AHM
CP LW Baggage 4318 by Rapido Trains
SOO LW Baggage by Walthers
SOO HW Baggage 1627 by Walthers
CP HW Combine 3249 by Rivarossi (no interiors)
SOO HW 8-1-2 Sleeper by Walthers
SOO HW 12-1 Sleeper “Beauport” by Walthers
CP HW Diner “Aberdeen” by Rivarossi (no interiors)
CP HW 12-1 Sleeper “Nelson” by Rivarossi (no interiors)
CP HW 12-1 Sleeper “Nelson” by Rivarossi (no interiors) (a second “Nelson” offered by the same seller)
CP HW Café-Observation “Mount Bluebell” by Rivarossi (no interiors)
That means:
5 cars by Rivarossi, 4 cars by Walthers, 1 car by Rapido Trains & 1 car by AHM
7 CP cars & 4 SOO cars
8 HW ars & 3 LW cars
Which version would be more realistic for a early to mid 50s summer-only all-sleeper Mountaineer?
I think Heritage park in Calgary has a CNR coach( doesn’t make sense as Calgary is a big CPR town) the CPR obs coach was in Calgary for years I used to see it out my office window in the 60’s, I don’t remember when it left, is it true it ended up in Montreal?? BTW it must have been really comfortable behind steam going through the spiral tunnels eh? koff koff!
Hello,
I enjoyed looking over your consists, and think either one would give a good representation. When I was a middle school kid in the early 1960’s I used to bike down to the Milwaukee depot in Minneapolis to see the Mountaineer. Of the sixty or so passenger trains that came and went in Minneapolis every day I always thought of that train as one of the most exotic. CP passenger Geeps , painted in the beautiful older colors, curved side CP lightweight coaches and sleepers mixed with heavyweight Soo cars, foreign line Pullmans from most anywhere…that was a train! Plus it followed the Soo’s passenger route over otherwise freight only terminal trackage that twisted and curved between the Great Northern depot and main post office, through a tunnel and between warehouses and mills. Not to mention a tangle of trackage that no normal modeler would ever dream up. Quite a train!
Well worth modeling. Regards,
Benny Peters
Hi,
a fellow Milwaukee modeler is building such a car at the moment, here is what i can tell you. A Palace car is indeed a good start. The prototypes were built from Barney & Smith wooden sleeping cars, thus they had the truss rods on the underbody for support reasons. He used the sides from a Rivarossi car, end railings are made of brass wire, roof is Northeastern Scale Caboose roof, side posts are Styrene. Thats it… 