The North Central is a good compromise. Most Washington sections used it from Baltimore to Harrisburg where they were added to the name train. you could model the Port Deposit line that came down the east bank of the Susquehanna to Perrysburg but it never had much in the way of passenger service. It’s hard for those in the heart of the PRR territiory to consider anything outside that area. In know because I was raised in Phiily not far from the corridor and was about 12 when I saw my first engine that was anything beside a GG1. Guess what I am modeling? You could consider the GR&I up through Michigan. It traversed the area from Ft. Wayne to Grand Rapids, Cadillac, Traverse City and up to Macinac City Where the Chiref Wampum took cars across the straits of Macinac to St. Ignace. Lots of small towns, Beautiful scenery, Diverse freight from fruit to furniture and cereal but again not much in the way of passenger service. Another option would be the Toledo to Detroit line. More passenger service and dead level the entire way with a major city on either end ( a double ended yard could be both cities possibly with a view break of some type tangential to the tracks). Another option would be somewhere on the Panhandle to St. Louis. All those options have numerous interchange points with other railroads. Just don’t rush into buiulding. I was forced to wait five years to start my railroad and took the time to pare it down from 30th st. to Trenton compressed to the mile amd a half from North Philly to Shore tower in full scale. Now I am building with no compression of scale with one major yard and three minor ones, two branchs from two of the yards that may or may not get built (one has 62 industries itself and the other has a major electronics company and several publishers) and 82 industries along the main line. Now I can roll the through trains down the four track main while the yard crews use the east and wes
One thing I’m doing a bit unusual is setting my model railroad in early winter. Some folks do a snow scene but there are very few wintertime layouts out there. [:)]
[quote user=“Dave Vollmer”]
Ironrooster mentioned it, and then it came up in (WARNING: Spoiler Alert!) Tony Koester’s column in the July MR:
Modeling “the road less modeled.”
I admit, as a Pennsy man I am anything but unique. There are literally thousands of PRR modelers. Some stretches of the Pennsy have been reproduced down to the last signal post by a dozen or more people. My “proto-lanced” Middle Division is completely… well… common.
As I plan for the future I have wrestled with ways to model a stretch of the Pennsy’s 4-track main, relying on the work of many others who have done the same. Part of the reason I’m shying away from that idea now is because of the sheer volume of traffic and staging I’d need to reproduce, but also a big part is that it’s been done to death.
Now, maybe I shouldn’t care. It is, after all, my layout. But, if 30 other guys had done the exact same thing, I would feel like a Johnny-come-lately.
Part of the lure of modeling the PRR’s Northern Central branch in southern PA is that fewer folks have done it. Sure, I can name a few guys who have or are planning to do it, but it’s still a much less modeled stretch than, say, Horseshoe Curve.
If I wanted really obscure, I could model the PRR’s Quarryville branch, which left the PRR electrified main at Lancaster, PA and ran south through town (on Water Street) and then south through farm country (right past my uncle’s farm!) to Quarryville. At Quarryville, it passed under the PRR’s electrified Atglen & Susquehanna high-speed freight route, although it never physically connected there. The line died in 1972 under Penn Central thanks to damage from Hurricane Agnes.
Here’s the trouble… There’s almost nothing out there in the literature about it. So, there’s a compromise. The road
Check this out: www.conrail1285.com
Ed’s doing a fantastic winter scene sans snow. He’s using a lot of natural materials for forest floor and turf. The effect is terrific.
Lee
Well Dave, I guess I’ll chime in on this.
As you may remember, I model a freelance road based in Maine, but my road is based closely on the real Belfast & Moosehead Lake RR. I do enjoy some sources of info for that road as there is some info available on the web. Thing is, there’s a lot that isn’t available too. To fill in the gaps I’ve found that old newspapers, county records, recollections of those from the area who were there, old employees, and even some of the rail photogragh sites on the web that just have scads of pics that you have to wade through to get the good stuff, can help.
For instance, I know that the B&ML connects to the MEC at Burnham Jct., and so I can look for pics of the B&ML at Burnham Jct., or the MEC at the same location, and I’ll get info. I can also go to the local newspaper and search for old articles written about the RR. The town planning office has blueprints and surveys that give me detailed info on the buildings and track arrangements. A visit to the area allows me to look for the old timers who can offer colorful memories for the price of a cup of coffee and a little time. Also, sometimes you get lucky and find someone who thought themselves to be quite the aspiring photographer back in the day and they’ll have a wealth of old pics that haven’t seen the light of day for umpteen odd years.
As in modeling, sometimes research calls for some “creativity” too!
Philip, whatever happened to the old Belfast and Moosehead Lake? Last time I was up in Belfast, several years ago, there was a debate about it.
Belfast, ME, by the way, one of the nicest towns anywhere. I fondly remember the days in Waldo county. It’s very cool that you’re modeling the area. You have a lobster pound on your layout? [:D] I miss those…
NB…sorry for getting a bit off thread topic.
I am definately modeling a “road less modeled”. My layout is based on the Santa Fe line that ran from Alpine, TX to Presidio, TX. The era is late 50’s, but in my world, the Santa Fe was a little more successful out there. I loosely based my track plan on what is actually out there, and trying to use the same structures that could be found along that line.
I was looking for a good excuse to have a Santa Fe layout, with a little Southern Pacific mixed in there, so this was a perfect fit for me. I get interchange in Alpine, and joint trackage from Alpine to Paisano Pass. I really had to compress things more than I wanted, but being a military family, I didn’t want to get too big for my britches. Once we get settled in somewhere, I plan on constructing a much larger layout that is a more faithful representation of the area.
Are you ready for this?
In 2005 the tracks in Belfast were taken up and for the first time in over 130 years, Belfast was (and still is) without rail service. Why, you ask? Officially, because the RR didn’t pay it’s lease payment to the city when they should have. Officially, they were given a chance to pay it, but failed. The amount in question? About $650.00. Thats it!
Unofficially, the RR was in transition between owners and during the time that the payments were being discussed as to who would pay what, the city of Belast decided that there was some prime waterfront real estate that they wanted, so they demanded payment, then quickly foreclosed so that they could get the land. Within like a week they had crews out there ripping out the historic rails and filling in the turntable pit. The tracks now end at the Belfast city limits. The turntable was removed (it’s an antique Armstrong turntable thats almost 100 years old) and I think it’s being stored in a warehouse in City Point. I think some of the old rail from the yard (also around 100 years old) is stored there too.
The railroad transfered ownership and the new owners have revamped some of the historic RR owned buildings and have got the Spirit Of Unity (the lines one and only steamer) back under steam, along with at least two of their GE 70 tonners. Excursion trains now run from Unity to Burnham Jct. on a regular basis.
I love the area too.
What about the “time less modeled”? I get the impression the majority of modelers model either the Transition or Modern Era.
I model three fairly common roads: PRR/PC, Reading, and Delaware & Hudson. However, I model the dark days of the early 1970s, just before Conrail. Up side, there’s a lot of information. Down side, it’s required a good deal of custom painting.
Nick
You bring up a good point.
I model the late 20’s and early 30’s. That is backdated from the last layout by a decade. I thought about going back further, but decided against it because of replacement costs of equipment already owned.
I kind of like being in an era that not so many others are in. I know I’m not way out on a limb, but it’s a different enough time that it makes my layout have just a little different flavor.
I think those who go off the beaten path (that being current modern equipment and that of the transition era) have to enjoy the research end of the hobby just a bit more then most. Even those who say, worked for the RR in maybe the 70’s and now model it have done the research. They just did it first hand. I kind of admire those who step out of the mold a bit. Thats not to say that those mainstream modelers aren’t worthy of admiration too. It’s just that, a layout done in a timeframe that is a bit out of the ordinary catches my eye first. I guess that why I like hminky’s and Spacemouse’s layouts so much.
I kinda hesitated to jump in because of the decidedly Eastern flavor of the conversation. But my layout is a vastly unmodeled area of the SP. The Lordsburg sub is isolated in Southern New Mexico and involves no major towns. Small towns dot the line with not a lot of major industries. But being my old stomping grounds where I grew up , it just had to be my railroad. It’s mostly desert of course so it doesn’t involve a lot of tree making etc. I had to make it interesting for me so I added a shortline to service a ficticious town along the line , with the SP more or less passing through, it gave me a chance then to model the SP and Even a little Sante Fe which ran through Deming NM.
Philip, ah…so they have excursion runs? I may have to make Belfast a summer trip this year with the kids. I hope the town hasn’t gotten overly tourist “boutiquey”…that was the argument I heard when i was up there last, as you described, they wanted the waterfront back.
Thanks for stirring up nice memories…back to the thread…
If you want a really obscure line, why not the Waynesburg & Washington RR? This was a narrow-gauge PRR branch in southwestern PA. It was around for a few years, before traffic died off. It simply took too much time getting between both towns, as well as transferring freight from the W&W to the PRR in Washington. Even after it was widened during WWII, traffic never materialized, and it was gone by the 1970s…after years of using a railtruck to keep the line open. The Monongahela/Penn Central (Waynesburg Southern branch)/Conrail ran over part of it, but let the rest return to nature. Today, that line is part of NS…and the primary item shipped is coal.
I fall into the “road less modeleded” catagory. I model the Texas Midland RR in the 10 year stretch between 1917 and 1927. Ever since I was a teenager I modeled narrow gauge D&RGW, RGS and some C&S. Still do a little but I got interested in the standard gauge Texas Midland in a round about way. I never imagined I’d be interested in modeling a standard gauge railroad. The D&RGW and RGS had become very ordinary. Every other issue of the Gazette seemed to feature the same locations and the same models. I started looking around for some other narrow gauge railroad to model where I might be abile to use at least some of my locomotives. I decided to start close by and found several ng roads in Texas that might work. While doing the research I found a complete set of the now defunct “Journal of Texas Short Lines and Transportation”. They covered a number of narow gauge railroads but also many standard gauge shortlines. I found some of these standard gauge lines where very close to home so I went out to visit the areas to see what I could find. While doing this I found an article that made a breif mention of the Texas Midland that ran from Ennis to Paris. Ennis is practally in my own back yard. So I started digging for info on the TM and managed to find enough bits and pieces over several years where I at least felt I could model at part of it faily well. While out tracking down the old right of way I discovered exactly the place where the TM crossed the Trinity River and found an interesting brick station on the east side if the Trinity at Rosser that is still intact. I even found and old picture of the bridge. Central Vally makes a Pratt Truss that is almost perfect. I discovered that station at Rosser was built in 1917 after the orginal wood structure burned down. That set my 1917 date because I wanted to model that station and Rosser also. 1928 was the point where the TM was sold to the SP and leased to the T&NO. The last locomotive purchased by the TM was in 1913 and alm
Can you let me know if Purple Haze Technologies is ever hiring ? Sounds like a great place to work [:D]
Shawnee,
This should answer some questions.
And for some of the history that some friends and I have gathered, check this out!
Sorry, I’ll go stand in the corner now. I was bad…
That is a neat line.
But again, I’m not out just for obscurity.
I’m looking for that compromise between all of the things I want (heavy traffic, passenger ops, coal drags, good mix of motive power, and some degree of obscurity).
That obscurity is just one of the ingredients in the great compromise stew that is choosing a prototype.
Well, I do 1900 so I am in the era less modeled. I use Wabash, PRR, and NKP rolling stock (PRR is more modeled, the other two mediumly so). All my buildings so far are stock from-the-box kits so they are probably the most modeled.
Narrow-gauge note: Tony Koester’s favorite NKP division used to be the Toledo, St Louis & Western RR a.k.a. “Clover Leaf”. This line was originally (1870s) built as a narrow-gauge line and had connections to Cincinnati and Texas. Despite inventing a gadget that allowed rail cars to change from standard- to narrow-gauge trucks, the line was a financial failure until it was widened.
On a cool note, after electric interurbans were built all over Indiana and Ohio, Clover Leaf passenger service was deliberately scheduled to meet the interurban trains. Although slower than (for instance) the Wabash Cannonball, the price was much cheaper. So tourists and local businessmen could use them. This offers a modeler a way to have some rather interesting interchange traffic - the steam-powered “Commercial Traveller” could arrive in town and find the interurban waiting (or vice versa). Whichever line is not your major subject could be automated to arrive/depart at the dramatic best time.
I always thought that modeling the Clover Leaf as it looked as a narrow gauge line would make for a neat and unique layout. Who would think that 3’ tracks skimming though the flatlands and corn at 60 MPH would be prototypical?
If you’re looking for a unique Pennsy line to model, why not the line west out of Terre Haute towards St Louis? True, there might be more passenger service than you can handle, but it’d be a good excuse to run T-1s, K-4s and even the elusive streamlined K-4. The area is lousy with coal, so while you probably won’t be able to have online mines, you certainly can have as much coal traffic as you can handle. As an added bonus if you model Terre Haute itself, you can also have a short stretch of the Pennsy’s line to Peoria. That line barely saw two trains a day, but it did feature some traffic coming out of the Cat plant in Peoria, and it was the preferred line to ship high & wide loads out of the city as well, due to it’s generous clearances.
Among my druthers is that the line I model be one I’m familiar with already, which is essentially PRR Lines East. Much beyond Horseshoe Curve, and I’m in unfamiliar territory. I’ve been to Johnstown, Latrobe, and Pittsburgh, but I’m not as familiar with that territory as I am with the PRR east of Altoona.
I’m also considering the double-tracked Northern Central line north of York, between York and Enola. There are lots of switching opportunities as well.
Both a blessing and a curse on that line is from Wago Junction north, the Northern Central connects with the Low Grade Line off of Shocks Mills bridge and the CV branch under catenary. This is a great scenic opportunity and screams “Pennsy!” since nobody builds their catenary poles like the PRR. Also, I would have a place to run my GG1! The curse comes in with scratchbuilding those catenary poles; no one makes any in N that look like PRR.
Sure, there are catenary systems in N, but none look like this:
Fortunately, of the myriad configurations for catenary that PRR chose from, the ones between Wago Jct and LEMO interlocking are relatively simple to construct from plastic or brass. It’s the fragility that concerns me.
It struck me that if I can find a way to mass-produce them (cast resin?), I could sell them, given that there’s a hole in the market there.