Are you a member of a modular club that participates in train shows, exhibits etc. where the general public comes by to view your layout?
If so, does your club carry liability insurance in case of an accident by the public such as tripping over barriers, wires… whatever?
I know that, in some instances, clubs are covered under the insurance policy of the venue owner but not always.
How does your particular group handle this?
Jarrell
Yes, our club has a liability policy. For many years we did not, then a new (at the time) venue required it, and the more we thought about it, and the world we live in, we as a club are happy we have it.
Yes, the venue should be responsible, but if they were serious about it, they would inspect to assure that there are no wires or obstructions in the isle ways etc.
Is your club incorporated or just a bunch of guys with traveling layouts. If you are incorporated, an insurance policy is a good idea since you could also cover your equipment against other losses.
If you are a bunch of guys (I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on TV–I do not even own a TV) then they would have to sue you individually, but then you should be covered by your home owners policy. But you will need to check with your agent about that, you may need a rider. If you are a renter, I hope that you have renter’s insurance.
An ounce of prevention: Appoint a “Safety and Security Officer” who will inspect your setup before you open to the public. Let him assure that isles are clear, codes complied, valuable stuff away from wandering fingers.
Just some thoughts from the LION who sometimes plays the role of a person, but only if he feels like it.
Lion,
You are completely wrong here. Most venues now require a liability insurance - it’s just a fact of life. As far as who is responsible if there is an accident:
My club has a layout in an office center - we are required to have insurance(like any other renter in the structure). It costs us about $130/year…
Jim
Venues are only responsible for what they own. If you go to a train show and fall down the elevator shaft, it’s the venue’s fault. If you go and a module falls over and crushes your pet ferret, it’s the club’s responsibility.
Not that either of these things happens all that often, but they were the first examples to come to mind.
OK, LION did not know. But then He was thinking of a venue such as a Church or High School.
How do train meets and other such things managed. If bob rents a table space at a convention held in a college gym… you have a chain of people involved.
Too bad things are so complicated. It is easier to just eat them.
Thank you all for your answers!
Jarrell
Even a church or high school will want you to have liability insurance.
We had our annual shows at a college gym. They required 1 million in liability until last year. Now they want 2 million. We also got a bill from the venue for $400. It was for the Janitors overtime! He was there for 1 hour Sunday evening to lock the door and made sure we cleaned up. This was a first. We rented this gym for 9 years. We have found a different venue. A larger place for a third of the cost and to top it off they supply the tables too for no cost. They also require a 2 million liability coverage.
Pete
Oh? We host these kinds of groups all of the time and do not require them to be insured.
roar
Not requiring insurance is not the same as them needing insurance. There are exceptions but I suggest you check with your lawyer. The church must have a lawyer,
Our Club club belongs to our citys chamber of comerce. As a chamber member we are covered under their insurance. All it costs us is the yearly membership costs.
Back to the topic:
Lawyers and insurance companies and those who prefer to collect money when things go wrong like insurance.
Many good-hearted people intensely dislike having to insure for every possibility. But being good-hearted won’t stop the attempts at collection when things go wrong, unless the real victims (if there are any) are like-minded. Most of the time they are.
Our modular group does not have insurance of our own at our setups. There is probably an opening at the public setups (some are private setups at churches and the like) for a suit, although we do our best to prevent incidents in the 1st place. We go to great pains to make sure the layout is very stable. Each member provides 2ft of rope and stands for every foot of module to fend the crowd off on both sides. And since there is no formal club or organization, suing is going to be more difficult.
But I have to ask those who are worried about being uninsured. Is all your skirting fire retardant (whether required or not)? Are you power cords covered with carpet and taped down to avoid tripping hazards? Are your electrical, electronics, and equipment stored on shelves under the modules instead of loose on the floor? Is your electrical system in full accordance with local codes? Do you keep members who are not operating trains on hand to deal with the public rather than distracting operators? How have you prepared for uninvited members of the public crossing your ropes? Are you prepared to render first aid, and summon additional help if the situation requires? If you are not trying to be as safe as possible from the get-go, then you probably should throw money at the issue by buying insurance.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
NOW FOR THE CLUB INSURANCE ISSUE.
No high school or what ever will just donate a room to you without having proper liability insurance. How do I KNOW? Because I was a show co-ordinator for 5 years, because I attend around 20 odd shows and modular clubs events every year and I know basically everyone that put these events together. Churches on the other hand are strange. From my EXPERIENCE as long as one of the members of a modular club is a church member then they can host a event in a donated room. As long as they don’t charge admission then they are good. If they do charge admission then by LAW they must carry liability insurance. If they chose not to then the church would be on the hook for any personal injury claim. That’s how things work in the REAL WORLD.
Laws on these types of issues vary significantly from state to state. I don’t pretend to speak for other locales.
Here in Colorado Springs, none of the events I help put on at churches or schools require separate insurance. The property owner is assumed to be insured for general liability unless the rental contract specifies otherwise. And since my church rents a high school every Sunday, I see both sides.
The biggest sticking point at events in rented or borrowed venues in our area is almost always the local fire marshal, not the lawyers. The fire marshal can find fault with both sides - poor maintenance and improper wiring by the facility owner, and failure to properly plan for public safety and emergencies by the event holders. Inadequate egress in the way tables and curtains are set up (especially for the general public), tripping hazards, and overloaded electrical circuits are the most common findings by the fire marshal.
Like I said earlier, having a first aid kit and a member to tend to so
Fred, up here in Canada it is impossible to host a show at a school without liability insurance. They also charge a ton of money to rent a gym because they also have to pay for staff to open, maintain and close the school after the event. School boards are not going to take on the extra cost plus the risk of liability in the event of an accident. It just is not practical. I would bet that if someone looked at all the rules to renting a school where you live then there is a clause in there about insurance. I would bet it is an over site on someone. That’s why churches are popular with modular groups. Good point on the fire marshal. I had to get our floor plan approved by the Fire Chief before we could set up our show.
Jarrell
Obviously we have many here whom are self professed experts, but really don’t know squat about your specific circumstances, only what applies to them.
The best advice is to error on the side of caution, and get insurance to protect yourself. Even if you have the best intentions, (good) lawyers cost money, it’s better to have the insurance company lawyers fight for you and themselves than you have to go it alone.
This is a fact.
Again, different locales, rules, and cultures. School districts here compete for students, because state funding follows the student. Families are allowed to send kids outside the home district if the receiving district has room at the school of choice. At the better schools, over 10% of students come from out of district. And there are plenty of charter schools (who also get the per-pupil state funding) to provide even more competition.
Net result is schools have to control costs carefully, along with reasons to choose their particular school. Unlike anywhere else I have lived, the football stadium and the swimming pools are shared by several high schools. The schools actively pursue good renters of the facilities on weekends. Club sports teams and various hobby shows are favored tenants because the rent covers the cleanup costs and then some. But rent has to be reasonable to draw renters in the 1st place. From the school’s side, holding events on weekends gets the school notice for choice parents. The schools even calculate usage of the fields which will optimize income vs maintenance.
To get use of a church usually requires a church member be a member of the modular group. But then the use is free.
Like I said, I have never seen insurance even discussed. The arguments and discussions come over who created the extra work for the janitorial staff (was the mess there when the renter or user arrived?). But then I’ve never seen an accident at any train show I h
How about we just toss the ferret down the elevator shaft and call it even !?!?!
[:-,]
John
Ferret Not. PETA will come for you so fast!
PETA was in Bismarck with a protest on the east driveway of the capitol building.
Some ranchers set up a Cook Out on the west driveway. Their sign read “People Eating Tasty Animals”
Needless to say, they are the ones that attracted the crowds and the media attention.