First the Good New, Pairs is back in Jail![#offtopic]
Now to the subject. As many of you know I have been have a lot of problems with my Genesis Big Boy 4009. Ever thing from Decoder problems , tender tipping (not like cow tipping when they are a sleep) to lack of pulling power. Dave in the Teck deparment asked me to see if the LHS would take it back and give me a driffrent one. Asked Ken at K-10 Trains (best LHS in Maryville IL) and he said he would. Ken hears all the complaints I have in person so he knows it has been a battle for some time.
Today I got my New Big Boy 4020 and it is TALENTED AND DOES TRICKS!
OK, it only does it tricks on left hand turns. The PIC shows an APX 23" turn on the B line passing track. Then I ran it on the B main line that has 26" turns and it did the same tricks. On a 18" right turn it is rock solid?
How do I fix this? More weight on the lead truck? It is spring loaded, tighten the screw or use a spacer under the spring?
I have checked the rails and they are in gauge. Funny thing with old 4009 having all it’s problems staying on the track was not one of them[sigh] It ran the same rails for hours with no problems.
Oh, I dont think it is the problem but there is a spot for a screw (I can see the brass threads) on the rear divers in the center of the pistons.
Ken, with every post and with every return of an Athearn sound-equipped steamer that you report, I renew my vow to never, but ever, purchase an Athearn.
Anyway, your front truck is not mounted properly or else it is experiencing a retardation of its desire/need to slide and or turn to the left. Disassemble (why you should have to do this on two successive locos is beyond me, but…) the truck and feel around and look for flashing, a burr, missing fasteners…whatever. The spring apparently isn’t doing much good, or it is overwhelmed by the fault, whatever it is.
I gotta say stop trying to run such a big engine on short radius, the first two axles of that first driving set are really off the rails and contribute nothing. never mind the crappy spring on that truck.
Im sorry ive seen these photos, it only affirms my hardening determination to run big steam on big radius… like 30"
Safety Valve , again I have to post that the radius it self is not the problem! 4009 did the same rails with no derailling problems! Class J and M1a BLI are draging freight on the on the same lines as I miss spell. Yes, thay are smaller but it is not the turns. Be sides Safety, why only on Left turns and not a right?
Genesis may have problem, but 4020 has it’s own speical problems. Decoders sound great and it seems to pull less power than my old 4009. It just does not like Left turns?
Ken, flip it upside down and see what is different when turning one way versus the other. Obviously something is catching. Not unusual with articulated steam by the way, to have an issue turning one way versus the other. I had a brass Class A and one steam pipe joint was sticking a bit, and she would NOT turn left about 60% of the time.
I would not fool with springs or weights on the front truck. It should be free to follow the rails side to side and up and down (a little).
Dave onces again I will post the fact that the turns radius is not the problem![soapbox] Look silly I will go along with but #4009 had no problems!!! PLUS IT IS DERAILING ON A 24 TO 26" TURN!!! 18" TURN IT IS ROCK SOLID!!!
Guess no one reads posting just throw in there 2 cents worth! Soory to sound harsh but it is not the %&*! turns!
OK, I played with it for say 2 hours. First I added a .015 athearn washer uuder the front spring and it helped a but still derailed. Then I added a second and it made it around the bench and lead truck did not derail! But the rear drive wheels of front drivers derailed, Hum. Added a 3rd washer but did not help the rear drive wheel of front drive truck (is that right)??
Now I will say this, it pulled much better than the 4009 did, tender did not tip and a 25 car drag was not a problem! OK we are getting some where, I think. Backed the front spring/ truck srew out 1 turn, it now has 3 .015 washer under it then I threw on .5 oz’s on the front walk way. Gave it another pass, rear wheels derailed again!
Remember haters of 18" TURNS it does fine on them!!! So I ran it on the main B-line that has 28" turns that go left. Started it up and was looking good made the first left and was running just fine![:D] Was pulling my Class J BLI train and that has 35 cars and doing it with no effort! Way better than the 4009 that I returned for this Big Boy.
Then it stopped moving but keept making chuffing sounds? Unhooked the train and shut down the DCC power supply. Started it up again and just sat there sounding great! Just would not @#%& move![censored]
I’m not really trying to be rude or anything, but I’ve never heard of anyone having this many problems with this many engines… really, really bad luck?[%-)]
Hum Dave, the owners manual says on page 4 line 15 (apx) “Front and rear engines(cylinders and coupled drive wheel sets) both pivot in order to manage 18: radius curves”. Plus if you look at the Mag shoot out between the PCM and Genesis it stared both would take a 18" turn!!!
Plus oh wise one, why would the 4009 not derail on the same bench for hours with no end with no problems? I bought it on 4-10-07 and ran it apx 100 hours. With Decoder and lack of pulling power problems I ran it becaused I Love the look. Ran great on DC just could not drag over 20 cars.
If you would like a first hand look of the owners manual for a mer $380.00 with shipping and over night mail yet you can have it and the #4020 as well! With your bigger radius turn’s I am 1000% postive the Decoder Will Work Just Fine! I am sure you would agree.[;)]
Now kind sir, if you would please get off the radius subject. I don’t want to get mad and I am sure you are trying to help as well. I am still green but by far more advances than I was last year.
Ken, have you tried turning the truck over? Reversing its direction, too? Maybe it was inverted during assemby, or else put on backwards? This is a wild guess, but I can’t think of anything else.
I’m echoing Crandell here, Ken. Did you find any binding or interference with the free movement of the front engine? I have a Y6b that had burrs on the pivot for the front engine that interfered with the pin that held the engine to the boiler, which was an easy fix. You might be able to correct it yourself, but if the decoder is failing again then maybe it’s time to cut bait.
You are right that these engines are designed to negotiate 18" radii, and they should be able to do it flawlessly or there’s something wrong. The fact that it makes some modelers noses wrinkle in disgust is not the locomotive’s fault; in fact any disapproval I feel for such
Ken, sorry to hear your problems here. Here’s a suggestion that has worked for me in the past when trouble shooting problems such as this. Turning the loco upside down does several things, among them changes the alignment of all the moving parts, so problems may not show up this way. You will need several sections of ridged straight track, not flex-track, and a smooth flat surface such as a glass table top, or formica counter top. Now place the loco on the track. Take another section of track, align it so the pilot truck is on this section of track and the rest of the loco is on the other section(s). Now you can slowly slide the section with the pilot truck to simulate it taking a curve and note just where it starts to lift or derail. If it follows side to side smoothly, move the loco’s front set of drivers up onto this section with the pilot truck and do the same thing. I’m betting the problem may not be the pilot truck itself but the whole front engine. Is there traction tires on the front engine, if so are they on both sides and on the rear set of drivers of the front engine? I have experienced the front set or drivers (engine) lifting the front ( similar to try to do wheelies) when pulling a long and heavy train because the rear axle has traction and the front axles don’t. From the photos, it looks like the front drive axle is trying to lift, infact, the second photo shows that the whole front engine is failing to swing left as it should. You may try removing the rubber traction tires from the front drivers and see if this helps. Ken
Ken,make sure that all the wheels are not only in gauge, but run true…If you are not set up with a cradle to turn the locomotive upside down and power it up to check the trueness of the drivers, try blocking the locomotive (upright) with popsickle sticks so the drivers clear your benchtop…with power applied, you will be able to see if any of the drivers wobble or hobble when running…
to check for proper gauge, you can use a calipers and measure the flange to flange distance of the wheels… compare these measurements to those of a good running locomotive…If a caliper is not handy, an axel and wheels from a good running railcar or loco could be used as a gauge for comparison…
I am curious about Erie’s suppositions, too. It would be worth removing the front engine to find out how it is hinged and if something about the castings, or what’s not meant to be there on the castings, is out of whack. A screw backed out? Flashing? Piping not pressed into its retainer?
Looking at the first photo, the front truck is distressed because it is being forced into a turn that its pivot point can’t accommodate. It’s pivot point can’t accommodate the rail curvature because its own mounting, the engine itself, is not being permitted to swing in a leftward arc to the extent intended by its designers. Simply that.
