In an unintentionally hilarious / regurgitated press release on another website UP executives noted that they have “the network capacity to handle any volume rebound in 2021 and even has room to grow”.
ROFLMAO. The verbal tap dancing by them is deafening. Of course they have capacity, as noted here and elsewhere they have been driving customers away in droves. Their numbers are pretty flat 2019-2020 except for the successful and substantial decrease in the employee count.
Supposedly they will be increasing capital expenditures and that will be interesting to see where it will be used. Probably not in Hearne, TX… More Unlimited Parking ?
Apparently, Their view from the Executive Offices,[polished by some , intra-mural, professional, wordsmiths] read the stats differently, from those of us out here in the cheap seats…[:-^]
In various threads here over the last few years, I’ve read quite a few less-than-complimentary comments about UP. Now, I’m not super interested in the business side of railroading, so don’t follow it that much.
From a railfan’s point of view, in terms of history, image, their steam program, etc., I actually think of UP as The Big Dog in railroading. Another reason may be because they are the only one of the big four to still bear its historic name. When I see the Big Boy, I don’t think, well there’s a railroad in trouble.
So for us who are not clued in, could some of UP’s detractors please explain in simple terms what’s so bad about UP.
I did learn in the Powder River Basin article that UP lost a lot of its PRB business to BNSF. Is that fact what’s behind a lot of the disrespect towards UP?
I’ve never had the opportunity to photograph a UP train. But that’s an omission I definitely hope to correct this summer.
I’m not a UP detractor (or follower, really), so this is an “outside” observation.
I suspect animosity over UP stems from two things.
First, they swallowed up a lot of lines, all of which had their own followings. Seeing “fallen flag” equipment on any train became an event. The last few CNW locos still in CNW paint were widely celebrated.
Second, something of greater importance to modellers, the license fees they imposed on model manufacturers (and thus on modellers) for UP logos, heralds, and other service marks (including the paint scheme). While not unusual in and of itself, such a fee was unfamiliar to the community as prior to that using railroad marks was pretty much a free-for-all.
Not just modelers and toy and model train makers, but UP went after calender makers and other railfan-market publishers for using UP logos, heralds, and the same from the railroads they absorbed.
A settlement/agreement endorsed by all was negotiated by Mike Wolf of MTH, but UP did wind up with a lot of embarassment and egg on their corporate face before it was all over, so much so I wouldn’t be surprised if the instigators at UP lost their jobs over it. We’ll never know about that at any rate.
During the whole dust-up all I could think of was what Joshua Lionel Cowen of Lionel Trains would have said:
“WHAT? I’ve been giving you boys a lot of free publicity by putting your name on my trains, and now you want me to pay you?”
“I’ll tell you what, you want to see your name on my trains from now on? I’m not gonna pay YOU, YOU’RE gonna pay ME!”
Don’t laugh! When Lionel was developing their post-war 2333 F-3 diesel locomotive both the Santa Fe and the New York Central chipped in for the development costs just to get their names on the toy!
When UP took over what became the fallen flag carrier - it was the UP way or no way. UP choked itself when it took over CNW and later SP. The fallen flag carriers were operating in a manner to keep their operations fluid. When UP came in and did it ‘the UP way’ without any understanding of how the properties had been operating it took periods of FRA supervision to get things in working order.
UP was not unique, CSX & NS suffered similar problems when they absorbed their portions of ConRail.
Prior to my retirement a little over a year and a half ago, my employer had three production sites captive to UP in Texas. I will assure you that dealing with them from a customer perspective was a bloody nightmare.
At one of the sites in the Houston area, our service schedule was literally adjusted and readjusted as frequently as every two weeks. And even then UP missed their schedule at least half the time. The local operating folks would promise to advise us if there would be any disruption in the service schedule yet that notification occurred only about a third of the time.
In addition to the questionable local service, shipments to customers would get hung up enroute or just short of interchange. I’d like to have a buck for every truck we had to send a customer to tide them over till UP finally delivered a delayed car to the customer or to the interchange railroad that served the customer.
And despite all the documented issues we would present during contract negotiations, rates continued to escalate every year.
I literally reached the point that when one of our sales people would bring me new business that was to move by rail, I would plead with them to let me move it by truck.
In the years I dealt with UP, I can honestly say I never felt like we were a valued customer despite their lip service to that effect.
THe realization come to mind…The ‘situation’ regardingUPRR and ts seemig attitudes towards their shiper in not new, not even a ‘recent’ thing.
Even when UP absorbed The MoP…conversations I heard back then, would , at some point, usually mention a phrase incorprating the term " Yellow Peril" regarding aspects of UPs cororate behavior towards other railroads and shipper customers…
UP definiotely had problems within its corporate structure when dealing with ‘customers’. But so did other railrods, the difference seemed to be amount of corporate finesse, they ‘chose’ to exercise…[sigh]
All railroads have a ‘culture’. Good or Bad they have a culture. Some railroad cultures are not compatible with the cultures of other railroads. When ‘mergers’ happen cultures clash. Some times there is little result in the clash of cultures, sometimes there is near gridlock as the culture clash plays out.
It’s hard not to laugh at the irony here! UP claiming they have plenty of capacity while simultaneously shrinking their workforce and alienating customers is quite the contradiction. It’s no surprise their volume hasn’t rebounded much if they’ve been making it harder for customers to stick around. The mention of increased capital expenditures is interesting—though, as you pointed out, it’ll be worth watching where that money actually goes. More “Unlimited Parking” seems like a real possibility!
My wife who’s moved on to a NGO instead of trying to keep OTR driver’s happy states that UP basically at her old job was like dealing with a bunch of monkeys all trying to grab a football and have relations with it if you were a customer of them. Their sales team had zero clue what the operations department wanted to know then management had a totally different idea of what they needed twice sometimes on the same day. She says now dealing with her clients at her NGO is easier than dealing with the UP on a daily basis and she works with people who literally can’t even live alone.
What I’d like to know is if it’s different or much the same regarding the other major railroads? Would haroldbenton’s wife have had a much different experience had she worked for CSX or NS or BNSF? Is UP really unique in its treatment of its customers or its service?
Between the UP and BNSF, the BNSF seems to be more respected than UP. I believe a big part is the SF part of BNSF. Santa Fe was, and is, a big fan favorite. It was a well run railroad. Then add in that Warren Buffet’s Bershire-Hathaway bought BNSF instead of trying for UP.
When this thread originally was started, UP was all in for PSR. BNSF was close to, or just beginning that route. Since then BNSF has gone deeper into PSR. They also nave been taken to task by the STB for customers complaints about service. Still, the UP’s woes gets more attention.
(On another site there’s a discussion about a news story involving organized thefts of Nike shoes from BNSF trains. Many responses were how UP cut off many of there Special Agents in California. I asked why the focus on UP cuts when this was a BNSF issue. Someone then did mention that BNSF also cut back on their police forces, too.)
BNSF may still be better to deal with, but they have their problems, too.
CSX and NS seem to be running under the radar, relatively speaking, on their service. CSX, and maybe NS, seem to have pulled back from some of the worst parts of PSR. At least that’s what it sounds like when I’ve seen anything about either one.
It’s like the biggest focus lately has been on the two western carriers.
One of the stated reasons BNSF and UP cut back on ‘special agents’ was said to be a lack of effective prosecution once suspects had been apprehended. I suspect there was also increased liability if there were any perceived ‘breach of civil rights’ or worse during the chase and apprehension, etc.
I’m in Illinois and I remember the Cook County States Atty criticism of the railroads Special Agents tactics of even to dare arrest the people that looted a container full of high end shoes calling them racist.