Greyhounds - Good read and I try and tend to think/believe the way you do. Hopefully our industry could be on the cusp of something very big here…
The units are Reliable 95-98% of the time at least they WERE until the EPA mandated a bunch of crap that the motors were never designed to handle. Stuff Like DPF on the latest models and EGR all to meet impossibl;e NOX Standards and they will be required to run into the state of California aka Borgifornia were you do as we say or fined out of Exsistance by the CARB board. IN CA you can nopt run a reefer unit that was built Prior to the year 2005 now and in 2014 it jumps to 2011. These are the same people that think a fish that is saltwater needs Freshwater more than crops to live. OR a Dog has more rights to be cool than the a person that controls a vechile that weighs 80K lbs. CA is the only state that has no idle exemption based on temps it can be 120 degrees out side 140 in your truck and you still have to leave it off or face a 1200 dollar ticket for running your truck in ORDER TO AVOID HEAT STROKE.
Taking Ed Benton’s comments seriously, I asked myself - “What if I had one of those TOFC reefer trailers that I saw yesterday, or one of the C.R. England reefer containers that are the subject of this thread - and it needed service right now !?! Could I find a local repair service ?”
A few minutes searching for Thermo King dealers in Pennsylvania turned up 7 locations run by firms, including 1 about just 7 miles from here - CSTK East, LLC, part of CSTK, Inc. of Overland Park, Kansas, which has 13 locations in 7 states in the NorthEast and Midwest - see: http://www.cstk.com/ There’s another one about 1/2 hour further west, another about 1-1/2 hours north and another 1-1/2 hours south, and yet another about 2 hours west. Right now a refrigeration unit failure wouldn’t ruin the load quickly anyway - the outside temps this morning were about 9 deg. F - but from this little exercise, I’d be pretty confident that help was within reach even on a hot summer day. On the other hand, NONE of those locations had the ‘steam locomotive’ icon that Thermo King uses for the “Rail Container Units” - only 4 had the ‘containership’ icon for “Marine Container Units”, though all of them had the ‘crown’ icon for Truck & Trailer Service.
One of those other firms - Motor Truck Equipment Co. at - http://www.motortruckthermoking.com/ - has a web page specifically for TK’s 2008 and 2009 “Container Refrigeration Units” at - http://www.motortruckthermoking.com/thermoking/showcaseproductslist.htm?Brand=364&Type=3101 I also looked to see if there were any others just over the nearby border with New Jersey, but no - they’re all about 1-1/2 to 2 hours away either up around Newark or down around Philly and
Herre is what can happen with a Brand new Reefer Unit as this happened to me. Hauling a load of Strawberries from CA to St Louis. Well reefer Unit had a leaking seal in the Compressor. and was leaking Refrigarantunit Never Shut down but would not stay Cool. Where was the Leak. We found it when the COmpressor Came apart 2 hours outside of St Louis. My company was mad that I could not stop the explosion. Well the Unit was under Warrenty and TK refused to repair it under warrenty. They had no choice. Boss to get even for the Quality issues on the 2000 models switched over to Carrier Units and has remained with them since.
I would think that more dealers would start offering rail reefer servicing if there was more demand for it. It would also be possible that the manufacturer would allow the railroad to hire some techs to service their own units provided there were no nearby dealers and the techs had gone through a manufacturer’s authorized training program.
Thermo King seems to be fully on board the train. They claim to be “Rail Ready”. They aparently agree with me that railroad movement of perishable commodities is a good growth market. (It’s always comforting when a major manufactuer agrees with me. I take solace in that.)
http://www.thermoking.com/promo_ads/heavyrail.pdf
They’re developing new products for rail service.
The railroads can handle perishable shipments just fine. They’ve done it since the 19th century. The movement of perishables by rail in the US never completely stopped. And it is growing as long haul trucking’s competitive position vis a vis rail declines. Putting perishables on double stack trains will only increase the growing rail advantage.
For a past presentation I compared the movement of perishables by rail from California in the 12 months ending June 30, 2008 vs. the previous 12 month period. I could develop more recent data, but I think these numbers will do. In the 12 months ending June 30, 2008 the railroads moved:
5,270 truckload equivalents of oranges. Up 72.5% from the previous 12 months
4,898 truckload equivlaents of lettuce. Up 24.3% from the previous 12 months
2,416 truckload equivalents of celery. Up 20.4 % from the previous 12 months
3,900 truckload equivalents of carrots. Up 31.3% from the previous 12 months
Plus thousands of loads of broccoli, cantaloupes, cauliflower, apples, g
Looking up Soo Line Refrigerated Trailer, I found a story about a 1970’s Trailer on Flat Car shipment from Minnesota to New York where they gambled on the reliability of a refrigeration unit on trailer. The end result was a melted load of butter in the trailers.
Andrew
IIRC you said that bout the Ice Cold Express. It did not last a Year and they had Mark VII Logistics doing the Brokering for them. Called a few buddies that are still in the OTR industry and also work in the Refrgarated Industry here are a few companies that will not allow the so called Next Greatest thing to hit there Docks. Oscar Mayer at the Cool Whip Lunchable and Hot dog Plants. Then Tyson at their Packaged Chicken Plants Baskin Robbins at any of their Plants will not get COld Enough. Then we have Coors they can not get the Weight Distribution right.
Fair enough for the ones that “cube out” before they ‘weigh out" - although note that the 7 53’ container loads instead of 6 53’ trailer loads that Ed mentioned above would only apply for the few miles of dray at the ends, not for the entire length of the shipment, so that would minimize that disadvantage.
For the ones that “weigh out” first - send 'em here to Pennsylvania. Trucks here are allowed an additional 10,000 legal gross lbs. for “intermodal” - and what shipper is going to turn down 20% more net weight per box, if he can fit it in ? It’ll get hauled to a Distribution Center near Philly, Lancaster, or Harrisburg, broken down and reloaded in 80,000 GVW trucks for delivery in the unenlighted neighboring states . . .
- Paul North.
Same Problem however. Not as Much space. Your giving up 27 sq feet of floor space to have the Reefer Container and close to 230 Cubic feet of space for that reefer unit. Sorry If I am shipping even a commiditay like Lettuce I cubed out before I wieghed out with the Bulk bins. Hauled alot of Iceberg for Fresh express and was always full of it going to Chicago. Romanie never weighed more than 33K for 30 pallets of it. Your asking shippers to give up 2 pallet spaces because someone in a company that refuses to pay a driver a decentwage wants to save a few bucks on his Shipping cost with the RR and then give the Produce houses will need to give the Trucking company another day to get it to the final destination. Word top the Wise if your England cut your losses now Fire the IDIOT that thought of this and get back to treating drivers like Humans. You see your Bottom line improve alot faster.
The best run Reefer carriers out there are those that still realize that Drivers are there to haul the freight not to sit all day in a rail yard wasting hours to short haul a Container. KLLM years ago was hauling alot via Rail and Got away from it when it almost put the carrier in Bankrupcy court. Stevens has seen their OR jump what drove Simon out of Business was having way to much freight on rails and it going bad. Well that and a poor Business model the same one that England is trying to follow.
Greyhounds may be right about I.C.C. interference with rates hurting rail shipment of perishables. We know that the spreading interstate highway system didn’t help. Maybe the biggest thing, mentioned by Mark Hemphill in a Trains story of a few years ago, was the disintegration of Penn Central. A good part of the business was of course bound for eastern markets, and the PC’s inability to deliver on time was a killer.
I am Not seeing these Containers in any of the BNSF Stackers on the Transcon at all. March we are still in Southern regions and also with BNSF using the Transcon to go to Northern Cal I would see them anyway if they were going to Richmond. Well I am not seeing any of them at all. Made a couple calls and their Shippers have told them all of their Shippers if you keep sending us these things we will no longer use your carrier for anything at all. England made a Huge 24,000,000 roughly and that is not easy to recover from when your Profit Margin is measured in Pennys a Mile.
I am kinda with Ed Benton on this, I have seen some (a Few) on trains through here on BNSF’s TC. I would have expected to see a lot more.
I am not able to to observe every train through here, but I’m guessing I see enough to make a credible sampling of what’s passing through. Seems here lately, The TOFC trains have a preponderance of TOFC, but also quite a few ‘well-car’ sets as well. Granted there are solid consists of TOFC and COFC double stacks, also. The Auto Racks run in full trains a couple of times a week and many times you’ll observe a number of them tacked on the back of a TOFC or COFC solid consist.
As to the reliability of the Reefer units. I would think that they would have a certain proven level of reliability, as they are also showing up on a number of high-cube reefers as well as containers. The technology MUST be sound or shippers would not rely on them with those expensive loads. I have nowhere near the experience the Ed Benton has with reefers, but in my limited exposure to them, it appeared that many of the enroute problems were related to various driver mistakes in monitoring the cycles and fuel and temps, to name a few problematic items.
Companies today fight the historic driver mistakes with satellite technologies (Qual-Com, etc) and computer programs interface with Dispatch software to alert individual;s of problems. Hauling refrigerated merchandise and food stuffs always emplys a certain level of risk, but the rewards will make risks worth while.
The “Refrigerated Container Thing” seems to be working.
http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/as-business-grows-cold-train-intermodal-expends-2983.html
I’m now seeing this equipment regularly on I94 north of Chicago when I’m driving to work. I’ve seen Cold Train, JB Hunt, CR England and NFI domestic boxes in the past couple weeks.
No company is just going to send one of these in to a shipper without prior discussion. England (or another box owner) will send in a salesman who will explain the advantages available to the shipper and ask for a trial load. If the shipper agrees it will go from there
And it seems to be going quite well.
A friend is a refer sales rep for England. I will ask next time how this service is working. We briefly discussed it about a month ago…cant recall how the conversation went.
Ed
Thanks for posting that link, which is similar to several others that have shown up recently in various publications.
Four further thoughts, based on what I’ve seen and read since then:
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I’ve seen TOFC reefers on some intermodal NS trains. Conceptually, that’s no different - except for the possible tare weight issue, see below for more on that - with regard to the reliability of the equipment and repair, refueling, and servicing difficulties, etc. while in transit. So if that’s turned out to be workable, COFC should be, too.
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Likewise, I understand that reefer containers are often transported on containerships, with special “plug-ins” to run the cooling units off the ship’s power instead of the container’s diesel. Again, if that works out OK in the middle of the ocean - very inaccessible for repair services ! - then why not on land ? I realize that running on “ship power” removes the risk of failure of the diesel engine power source from the equation - but there’s still a risk of failure of the refrigeration unit, its controls, etc.
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Ed Benton’s concerns about COFC reefers having tare weight and lost volume issues so that they would “load out” and “cube out” with less on board than a 53’ reefer truck are valid - there’s no possibility of coming out ahead with the other type of load, because these ‘bite’ you on both kinds ! Nevertheless, if the COFC rate is lower enough to compensate for that, it should be commercially acceptable nevertheless.
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I’ve mentioned the unique Pennsylvania intermodal GVW allowance law before, but a recent look at it again surpised me with what it allows for refrigerated meat containers - 107,500 lbs. GVW/ 21,000 lbs. per axle ! See:
Missed it by one county. The Tyson Northeast Distribution Center is in Leesport, PA. Leesport is in Berks County, PA, which is adjacent to the counties named.
That would definitely facilitate putting the meat on the rail. I wonder if “meat” includes chicken and turkey?
Anyway, Cold Train is expanding slowly but surely. A small business start up (I wish I could do that) will get into trouble if it expands too quickly. They’ve got their initial lane balanced and are moving revenue loads in both directions. That’s a key to success. Their next move aparently is service into the southeast.
As information, on average there are 15 truckloads per day of apples shipped from Washington State to Florida. Cold Train evidently knows this and sees it as an opportunity.
http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/news/article_c26d6c52-5c87-11e0-a0cc-001cc4c002e0.html
http://www.illinoisagconnection.com/story-state.php?Id=351&yr=2011
Good articles to read. Hope this is something that can catch on in other markets.
Sorry have been busy with Health and other issues so not much railfanning recently. However while Checking the Damge to the BNSF Transcon I saw a CR England Container in a train that had to slow for the Slow order. Well with the Tare weight of 13980 and then the Chassis weight on another of 6000 lbs thanks to another ridding on a Chassis then a Tare of a Freightliner of 16000 for a Midroof with a 58 inch sleeper and you will need that with EBORS and that is with only one fuel tank. BTW those weights will be DRY no Fuel lubes or Oils of any kinds iun the unit. Then you have the Driver and his gear of about 500 LBs sorry did OTR and 500 lbs worth of gear is about normal for US. So figure 150 Gallons of Diesel is abnother 1200 lbs of Dead weight do the Math You only have 42500 for Cargo and that is Being GENEROUS. Every outbound load I hauled for anything that maxed out was at least 45500. Anymore in the OTR Reefer Industry unless you can scale 46000 your not a player.
That works if you need 45500 to 46000 of product, but that is rarely the case, rather more than likely that is a doable amount of product and you buy that much because the freight rate makes the transportation cost lower. The customer takes a 45500 shipment every six days, but maybe a 40000 container every five days will work if the freight rate is cheaper such that the annual bill is lower. The cost per delivered unit is the driver. and the real unit is not the reefer load, that unit is imposed by the transportation system, not by the seller, the retailer, or the consumer. As the imposed unit gets bigger the likelyhood of increased wastage grows driving the price of the product higher. This is particularly true with perishables as there are limits on storage life. A consumer isn’t going to buy a months worth of bananas because he can get a better price, neither will a retailer. Some logi